AHC - Centre party paramilitary group

German history experts, correct me if I'm wrong, but the Centre Party seems to be the largest party in Weimar that didn't have its own paramilitary wing. Wikipedia says they were a small part of the SPD's Reichsbanner, but that's not enough for me! I want to give them their own independent group. How might this be done, what might it be called, etc. etc.?
 
Is Reichsbanner Schwarz-Rot-Gold what you mean? The Centre Party was a pretty big part of that. Weimar Germany's politics were pretty unstable so I guess a spat could break out and make them decide to take their people in the organization and form their own separate moderate freikorps with blackjack and hookers.
 
Is Reichsbanner Schwarz-Rot-Gold what you mean? The Centre Party was a pretty big part of that. Weimar Germany's politics were pretty unstable so I guess a spat could break out and make them decide to take their people in the organization and form their own separate moderate freikorps with blackjack and hookers.

That's the very group I mean. Admittedly, my only source is that Wikipedia article, but it says the Reichsbanner was overwhelming SPD. I want a solely Zentrum force, but I don't know enough about the period and party to say who might have formed it, what it might have been called (Gelb-Weiße Bund?) etc.
 
That's the very group I mean. Admittedly, my only source is that Wikipedia article, but it says the Reichsbanner was overwhelming SPD. I want a solely Zentrum force, but I don't know enough about the period and party to say who might have formed it, what it might have been called (Gelb-Weiße Bund?) etc.

I don't know much about it either. Maybe have the Centre Party somehow become really popular with vets (adopting advocating for veterans benefits as a central part of its platform to a greater extent than other parties maybe) and have enough wanting to join their paramilitary branch that it makes sense for them to form their own group?
 

NoMommsen

Donor
As said above, the Centre Party had some big stakes in and supported the Reichsbanner. There were also some ties to the Stahlhelm veterans organisation, though small and not very strong.

If there would be an own Centre party - catholic paramilitary organisation, problem for the Weimar Republik would be : even more defragmentation and chaos. With its large and firm supporting base in the catholic regions it woudn't have too much problems regarding 'recruiting' and I could envisage it in size of about 150.000 to 200.000 (at the utmost, the lesser more realistic IMO). But this would - to some extent - on cost of the Reichsbanner. Still a large force, mainly operating in the catholic regions (Ruhr, Rheinland, Silesia, ... not so sure of Swabia/Wuerttemberg and Badenia, much 'older' nationalistic Freecorps-regions).
And there only adding to civil-war like conditions.

IMO that would make a Reichswehr/Schleicher take-over much more possible earlier on.

However, the Centre party lacked one important factor to support the build-up of such an own paramilitary 'streetfighter'-wing : ideology of FIGHT as part of (almost) daily life as well as global life.
No need (IMO) to point out the role of 'fighting' in the right-wingers ideologies. The left-wingers 'grew' up in the ideology of 'class-fight' everywhere in daily like as well as on global/international scale.
But christian ideology, the very heart of the Centre party favors a unifying, forgiving stance looking for compromise with others instead of crushing others. Their 'hero' is the Martyr instaed of the Victor.


But if - for some (ASB) reasons I have no idea of - such an organisation ight come into existence :
what about "Crusaders" ? or "The true (believers)" ?
 

Towelie

Banned
The whole idea of the Centre Party was as a countereffort against the Liberal-led and Bismarck-approved kulturkampf, and consisted of mobilizing voters to the polls through Catholic institutions. It was never really a militant party. Streetfighting was not a valid part of its ideology. In the post WW1 chaos, there were likely traditional Centre supporters represented in the pro-government and anti-Communist paramilitary groups fighting, but it was never a priority for the party.

Much like some modern day Israeli religious parties, it had no issues with backing governments of the left and of the right provided that their priorities and interests were protected, and internal issues among the party's direction did not lead to splits, because Catholic Bishops could always step in when needed and calm things down.

For their to be paramilitary groups, you would need the kulturkampf to get started by the SPD in the 1920s to a degree in which paramilitary groups are needed to protect Catholic institutions from SPD paramilitaries. Perhaps the SPD wraps itself in the garments of "workers Protestantism" (most of their support came from Northern Germany anyways) and is able to make up for lost Catholic support by taking more of the Communist vote by aligning itself more economically to the left.
 
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NoMommsen

Donor
@Towelie A renewed and "brutalized" Kulturkampf ... by radical marxist-leninist lefts and/or radical neo-pagan rights ... could be an idea to forward kinda self-security (ooops, abbreviation : "S-S" O.O) organisation of catholics.

Would still need butterflies and PoD(s) the appearance of ASBs IMO.
I can't see the SPD going this way. The centre party was too close and too much needed a political ally
For the rights ... would need to butterfly away Hitlers pragmacy during rise to power.
 
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