AHC: Central Victory Israel

[Kaiser Tito]

If we assume a late victory where a central-aligned Greece aids the Ottomans in Gallipoli but they suffer from British-backed Arab raids causing them instability in their Arabian territories, how can a Jewish state in the levant exist by the end of the century?

I'm only able to think of two possibilities; either a Zionist group buys the land from the struggling Ottomans, or Greece (maybe as part of a coalition with Austria-Hungary and Bulgaria) establish Israel after a future Balkan war with the Ottomans as a grateful protectorate. I'm assuming that war is more likely but if the British cost the Ottomans enough them coming to the table might be possible.

 

[Lalli]

There probably should be fiercely antisemitic nation which would give reason for Jews to move to Levantine.

And you don't even need Greece being side of CPs. IMO it is bit unlikely anyway.

My take:

CPs win 1GW with some way. Russia becomes ultra-nationalist state instead communist one. France goes integralist and becomes very antisemitic. Eventually Russia and France begin new Great War (I know that new one is pretty unlikely but I do that for sake of this scenario). Altough France and Russia are unable commit such genocide politics as nazis in OTL lot of Jews would move to Ottoman Levantine. Germany and its allies eventually defeat France and Russia. Ottomans anyway fall to civil war and parts of Levantine are taken over by local Jewish militias. CPs realises that they can't save dying empire and they too are deeply horrified about antisemitic politics and persecution of Jews and decide send supplies to Jewish militias. Finally militias manage to establish State of Israel.

 

[Kaiser Tito]

If the integralists try to kill all the Jews in France, the Low Countries, and German pows, France pressures Italy to persecute their Jews, and Russia does it Armenia style executing prominent Jews while shipping the rest to Amur, would the outrage be sufficient for Zionist support?

 

[BiasHangover]

The small mizahari population get some form of local autonomy. Whilst not independent, it would classify as a state

 

[Lalli]

If the integralists try to kill all the Jews in France, the Low Countries, and German pows, France pressures Italy to persecute their Jews, and Russia does it Armenia style executing prominent Jews while shipping the rest to Amur, would the outrage be sufficient for Zionist support?

It is probably requirement for getting viable Israel. Without extremely antisemitic politics and Holocaust there wouldn't be hunreds of thousands people fleeing to ME.

 

[thenextgui]

It is probably requirement for getting viable Israel. Without extremely antisemitic politics and Holocaust there wouldn't be hunreds of thousands people fleeing to ME.

I think Eastern European Jewswould continue to migrate to Israel, as the Russian Empire was infamously anti-Semitic

 

[Lalli]

I think Eastern European Jewswould continue to migrate to Israel, as the Russian Empire was infamously anti-Semitic

Tsarist Russia hardly would survive from CP victory but it probably would still be very antisemitic perhaps even further than in OTL.

 

[Thon Taddeo]

It is probably requirement for getting viable Israel. Without extremely antisemitic politics and Holocaust there wouldn't be hunreds of thousands people fleeing to ME.

You don't need a Holocaust. By the time WW2 started, hundreds of thousands of Jews had immigrated to Mandatory Palestine. Antisemitism definitely played a role in the immigration (about 60,000 German Jews immigrated during the 1930s), but genocide isn't needed.

 

[Lalli]

You don't need a Holocaust. By the time WW2 started, hundreds of thousands of Jews had immigrated to Mandatory Palestine. Antisemitism definitely played a role in the immigration (about 60,000 German Jews immigrated during the 1930s), but genocide isn't needed.

True. And France and Russia probably wouldn't have capacity to commit such things as Germany had. And both probably would are happy just that Jews would leave their countries.

 

[Nyegosh]

One option would be the creation of a CP-aligned "GigaIsrael" to act as a cudgel against any potential Russian influence in the area - if the Ottomans collapse. If not, then no luck.

 

[RedSword12]

True. And France and Russia probably wouldn't have capacity to commit such things as Germany had. And both probably would are happy just that Jews would leave their countries.

Given that Vichy France happily helped the Nazis round up the French Jews knowing full well what was going to happen to them, and that the USSR imprisoned or murdered millions of its own people in its various sociopolitical initiatives (including ones specifically fueled by racism such as against the Kazakhs), I frankly don't agree. An antisemitic far-right regime could have certainly arisen in either country and committed a Shoah one way or another. Ion Antonescu committed a domestic holocaust in Romania on his own initiative; given the right circumstances, a far-right dictatorship in France or Russia could end up doing the same. It's unlikely, but not more unlikely than it was in Germany.

 

[Kaiser Tito]

Anyway for Austria-Hungary (I'm assuming Germany lets them handle matters in the Balkans) and Greece to get the Rashidis to accept it or are there still Arab-Israeli wars but against a united Arabia this time?

 

[Beatriz]

Theodor Herzl in Altneuland forecasted an *Israel that used Yiddish as its defacto language

 

[Lalli]

Anyway for Austria-Hungary (I'm assuming Germany lets them handle matters in the Balkans) and Greece to get the Rashidis to accept it or are there still Arab-Israeli wars but against a united Arabia this time?

Probably there would be some conflict between Israel and Arabs but it depends how things develope.

Theodor Herzl in Altneuland forecasted an *Israel that used Yiddish as its defacto language

ITTL it is possible but I am not completely sure. Since most German Jews would remain in Germany Yiddish would remain pretty much minority language. In other hand it probably has better status than in OTL.

 

[Danielson]

Since most German Jews would remain in Germany Yiddish would remain pretty much minority language. In other hand it probably has better status than in OTL.

Yiddish was, by the 20th century, primarily spoken in Eastern Europe (Poland, Hungary, Romania, Lithuania, Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, etc.) and in the Jewish diaspora originating in Eastern Europe. German Jews, having become more assimilated, by and large spoke German at that point

 

[Kaiser Tito]

Probably there would be some conflict between Israel and Arabs but it depends how things develope.

The most likely scenario seems to be that the Mizrahi's break off while the Ottomans go through a societal collapse while Germany and Austria-Hungary decide to recognize the new state and send French and Russian Jewish refugees there after their sequel to the Dreyfus affair and Doctor's plot.

Is there anyway the Rashidis could be convinced to leave the new state be?