Riain
Banned
The 145' are BS4A while the 151' are BS5 which are more powerful. I think maybe the light fleet carriers lacked the powerplant to provide steam for the bigger BS5s.
AHC: Carrier justification thread.
- Thread starter Riain
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The 145' are BS4A while the 151' are BS5 which are more powerful. I think maybe the light fleet carriers lacked the powerplant to provide steam for the bigger BS5s.
Que Victorious style cut and shut rebuild for Hermes and Centaur with complete change of powerplant. Hopefully not 6 times over budget!!!
Riain
Banned
32 million pounds for the Arks austere Phantom refit makes me believe that CVA01 is much better value for money.
I thought that Ark Royal received the BS5s in her 1967-70 refit, but she had a pair of 151ft BS4s when she was completed in 1955.
That's what Friedman says in Appendix A of British Carrier Aviation. He also said that Ark Royals 1955 catapults could launch 15,000lbs at 128 knots and 30,000lbs at 105 knots.
For comparison the pair of BH.V hydraulic catapults fitted to Eagle 1951-59 could launch 18,500lbs at 95 knots and 30,000lbs at 82.5 knots.
Eagle's 1959-64 refit was nearly as expensive at £31 million. According to Brown & Moore in Rebuilding the Royal Navy it was to have cost £11 million and take 4 years in July 1958. According to the Bank of England Inflation calculator £11 million in 1958 was worth £12.7 million in 1964. The refit was to have included replacing the existing 4" armoured deck with a new 1½"NC armoured deck to save 1,294 tons, but it wasn't done to reduce the cost of the refit.
But Eagle received more advanced electronics in the form of the Type 984 radar and Action Data Automation (ADA) the British equivalent to NDTS.
According to the Bank of England inflation calculator £31 million in 1964 was worth £40.6 million in 1970.
Had CVA.01 been built its likely that she would have been completed several years late and would be considerably more expensive than expected going by the Type 21, Type 42, Type 82 and Invincible classes.
Riain
Banned
There was a lot more done on Eagles refit, it was a significant rebuild whereas the Ark was the minimum that could carry the ship to about 1975.
I don't doubt cva01 would take longer and cost more than estimated, but I think cva02 would be the real victim of the 70s.
Of course what they should have done after cancelling CVA 01 is Phantomise Eagle, give Ark Royal a full refit, including replacing her machinery and convert all four Centaurs into ASW/Harrier/Commando carriers looking to replace them all with 3 medium sized carriers starting sometime around 1980.
Centaur can be used as a prototype VSTOL carrier after 1965 (when she was retired) by reusing the Kestrels from the multinational test squadron.
Centaur can be used as a prototype VSTOL carrier after 1965 (when she was retired) by reusing the Kestrels from the multinational test squadron.
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Riain
Banned
I think you're right, my guess is that the BS5 wasn't invented until a few years after the BS4 which is why the Vic had BS4A but the later Eagle, Clem, Foch and refitted Ark had them. That said I think they required more steam than the Hermes could make which is why it wasn't given BS5s in its 64-66 refit.
It's so annoying that something as crucial as catapults are shrouded in mystery .
They wanted it to be even more extensive. I've already mentioned the plan to replace the armoured deck. They also wanted to replace the existing DC electrical system with an AC one. However, that wasn't done for financial reasons and she completed her 1959-64 refit with an unsatisfactory AC/DC system.
Also the more extensive the rebuild/refit the more expensive the rebuild/refit. If those changes had also been made the cost of Eagle's 1959-64 refit would have approached the cost of a new ship with the same characteristics.
According to Wikipedia, they even wanted to give her the full Victorious treatment, stretched hull and new machinery and everything. Obviously, this is a non-starter on cost grounds.
SsgtC
Banned
My biggest pet peeve in trying to write my carrier TL. Just finding out what speed each model of catapult could accelerate a given weight to takes for-fucking-ever
SwampTiger
Banned
Victorious should have been the prototype ASW/Commando carrier. Save a lot of money wasted on the "rebuild".
US did that with a few of the ESSEX class ships like USS PRINCETON.