AHC Buddhism as the 2nd largest religion
Best way would be try make India Buddhist or more Buddhist nation. Perhaps emperor Ashoka lives longer or his successor are more succesful promote the religion in Maurya Empire. The dynasty should too last longer. It could be too more succesful in China. Altough even Buddhist India would be enough. Just avoid rise of Islam.
One problem with this.
You specified second largest behind Christianity. Your POD is several hundred years before its birth. It can't be assumed that a religion would develop always, butterflies could easily kill it.
Now if you want second largest to another religion... @Lalli had it right.
You specified second largest behind Christianity. Your POD is several hundred years before its birth. It can't be assumed that a religion would develop always, butterflies could easily kill it.
Now if you want second largest to another religion... @Lalli had it right.
One difficulty with deciding who's a Buddhist is that it syncretizes with every religion in its path. Buddhism syncretized so thoroughly with Hinduism that the Upanishads sing his praises.
If Hindus are counted as Buddhists, then the number of "Buddhists" are 1.6 million, about equal to the number of Muslims (and it would be more if Islam never rises), making them the second largest religion. But, of course, the Buddha isn't actively revered in Hinduism, so I wouldn't count them so.
You don't need a POD that old. Even a more successful and long-lasting Pali Empire would be more than enough, which would be post-Christianity. Such a POD would have effects far outside the Pali Empire, as Bengalis would interact and trade with other Indians, spreading their reverence of the Buddha.
Not enough. Buddhism still existed in the Kashmir Vale by the rise of Islam, but it was as small as Buddhism in Chittagong, and this small island of Buddhism could have easily fallen to Shaivite Hinduism.
Brihadaranyaka Upanishad said:
If Hindus are counted as Buddhists, then the number of "Buddhists" are 1.6 million, about equal to the number of Muslims (and it would be more if Islam never rises), making them the second largest religion. But, of course, the Buddha isn't actively revered in Hinduism, so I wouldn't count them so.
You don't need a POD that old. Even a more successful and long-lasting Pali Empire would be more than enough, which would be post-Christianity. Such a POD would have effects far outside the Pali Empire, as Bengalis would interact and trade with other Indians, spreading their reverence of the Buddha.
Not enough. Buddhism still existed in the Kashmir Vale by the rise of Islam, but it was as small as Buddhism in Chittagong, and this small island of Buddhism could have easily fallen to Shaivite Hinduism.
Depending upon how you read stats, Buddhism can be counted as having 690-694 million people in China. Using that same sort of culturally Buddhist system, you could get the following numbers:
In India, a Hindu state analogous to the Gupta forms in the West of India, perhaps based on the Rajput states. This kingdom then expands it influence to include areas such as Afghanistan. This defends the Buddhist majority in parts of North Afghanistan giving around say by 2010, 21 million Buddhists. This leads to Buddhist and Hindu ideologies spreading along various parts of Central Asia before Islam.
Islam arises as otl, but hits a brick wall in India. This starts the wars as usual between the Hindu kingdoms, Buddhist vassals and the Turko-Islamic states.
Buddhism spreads to south Asia as otl and fills gaps in China, Japan and Indonesia.
Islam without Pakistan or invasions deep into India could mean that a Saljuk state never forms thus butterflying the Turkic populating Anatolia. This could have the further effect of decreasing the size of Islam to only around 500-600 million people, mainly in the Arab world, Iran and Africa.
Buddhism on the other hand would have perhaps:
690 million in China
22 million in Afghanistan
160-200 million in Hindustan (Pakistan, India and Bangladesh)
80-82 million in Vietnam
59-62 million in Thailand-Siam
45-47 million in Myanmar
42-48 million in Korea
70-80 million in Japan
28-30 million in Malaysia
3-5 million in Laos
8-10 million in the Philippines
100-110 million in Indonesia
Gives around 1.386 billion Buddhists. This can be increased with more Buddhists in South Asia and Philippines.
In India, a Hindu state analogous to the Gupta forms in the West of India, perhaps based on the Rajput states. This kingdom then expands it influence to include areas such as Afghanistan. This defends the Buddhist majority in parts of North Afghanistan giving around say by 2010, 21 million Buddhists. This leads to Buddhist and Hindu ideologies spreading along various parts of Central Asia before Islam.
Islam arises as otl, but hits a brick wall in India. This starts the wars as usual between the Hindu kingdoms, Buddhist vassals and the Turko-Islamic states.
Buddhism spreads to south Asia as otl and fills gaps in China, Japan and Indonesia.
Islam without Pakistan or invasions deep into India could mean that a Saljuk state never forms thus butterflying the Turkic populating Anatolia. This could have the further effect of decreasing the size of Islam to only around 500-600 million people, mainly in the Arab world, Iran and Africa.
Buddhism on the other hand would have perhaps:
690 million in China
22 million in Afghanistan
160-200 million in Hindustan (Pakistan, India and Bangladesh)
80-82 million in Vietnam
59-62 million in Thailand-Siam
45-47 million in Myanmar
42-48 million in Korea
70-80 million in Japan
28-30 million in Malaysia
3-5 million in Laos
8-10 million in the Philippines
100-110 million in Indonesia
Gives around 1.386 billion Buddhists. This can be increased with more Buddhists in South Asia and Philippines.
Hmm... The big two I'd say have already been said above (No Islam, Bhuddist India) so another one I'd mention is having Bhuddism dominate/remain dominant (I'd say around 50% or more) in China (Through no communism and other factors), Japan, and Korea. That adds another billion people or more which could easily supplant Islam.
@Practical Lobster's excellent Rise of the White Huns accomplishes this. Any scenario with no Islam would result in most of Asia and the middle east dominated by Buddhist thought.
It was Pushyamitra Shunga's Brahmin-backed coup that lead to a purge of buddhists in India. The vast majority of people were forcibly reverted back to worshiping deities and the caste system was re-enforced. This was not 'conversion' in the Western sense as the concept didn't really exist at the time. The Shunga dynasty issued decrees rewarding people with a 100 dinara to whoever would bring them the head of a buddhist priest. The Brahmins spent the next few centuries slowly reimposing their supremacy in theological thought, assimilating buddhism.
So just avoid the reactionary Brahmin coup organised by Pushyamitra Shunga and Buddhism takes the second place easily.
The Mauryan Dynasty did a stellar job of spreading buddhism in the sub-continent as well as outside of it; to be honest. By the time Brihadratha Maurya's reign ended in 180 B.C. India was actually majority buddhist (or at least crypto-buddhist).
It was Pushyamitra Shunga's Brahmin-backed coup that lead to a purge of buddhists in India. The vast majority of people were forcibly reverted back to worshiping deities and the caste system was re-enforced. This was not 'conversion' in the Western sense as the concept didn't really exist at the time. The Shunga dynasty issued decrees rewarding people with a 100 dinara to whoever would bring them the head of a buddhist priest. The Brahmins spent the next few centuries slowly reimposing their supremacy in theological thought, assimilating buddhism.
So just avoid the reactionary Brahmin coup organised by Pushyamitra Shunga and Buddhism takes the second place easily.
Christianity has very little in common with Buddhism. What are you referring to?
I think you're overstating the Shunga Empire. They hardly held much of India, and after they fell, the Bengali Pali Empire rose for a very long time, seeing Buddhism prosper, and it was only replaced by a Hindu dynasty in the twelfth century(!). Even talking about the whole of northern India, there was Harsha's empire, which just...disappeared right before the rise of Islam. If Harsha stabilized his succession so that empire had lived, you could, with a relatively late POD, see Buddhism in India survive for a very long time.
Also, it should be noted that most Indians never stopped worshipping deities in the first place. In fact, the Buddhism that spread across East Asia came with Hindu deities, to the point that there are Japanese people who worship a much-changed form of Sarasvati. If Buddhism survived in India, it would be in conjunction with Hinduism.
One of the biggest issues we have with this thread is we don't really have an accurate number of how many Buddhists there are. The UN numbers on it for instance are super vague and don't account for the potential for people to have more than one religion. Often they are lumped together (which accounts for the overly high numbers of "Chinese folk").
Its also hard to delineate when somebody is a Buddhist and when they are not in general considering how disparate a religion it is.
Dont give the UN ideas, they may start to call Islam a Christian sect because they revere Christ
Either you don't know much about Buddhism, or you don't know much about Christianity to say that.
Dont give the UN ideas, they may start to call Islam a Christian sect because they revere Christ
I mean, the main requirement to be a Christian is to believe that Jesus is the son of a singular God. Islam merely believes him to be a prophet of God.
With Buddhism, what's the main requirement? To believe the Buddha is a philosopher? To believe in the Eightfold Path, in samsara, and in nirvana? Hinduism has those concepts, though they're not very major within it.
TBH, this issue is why I don't consider Buddhism to be 1 religion, in the same way people would rarely call themselves an "Abrahamist".
Earlier it is much easier to distinguish, be it the superiority of Buddhas and Dharma over deities of all kinds, or by the time of Nagarjuna Buddhist empistemology which seems to generally run throughout most strains.
Otherwise, yeah it is challenging to say Hindu sects that venerate Buddha are not Buddhist. If so, we might want to exclude Mongolian Buddhism as it does a similar thing with its dharmapala.
...I would pay to see this as a TL, also Buddhism is more of a 'Path of Inspiration' than a 'Organized Religion'.
But it doesn't mean that can't be organized, but Buddhism is not a path that actually searchs to enforce its beliefs so...
I do not know enough to make the argument, but I have heard if you empathize lines like "the Kingdom of Heaven is within you" and read it as the search for a way to behave/become enlightened, switch out John with Thomas (Elaine Pages argument) as one of the four Gospels Christianity does start to become more Buddhist.
Koxinga succeeds in taking Nanjing and beating back the Manchu from Beijing. With a commercial southern dynasty as the power behind the Ming throne, the various trends of the Late Ming are continued instead of reversed or stalled. Buddhism continues to thrive and syncretize with Taoism and Confucianism in the rich, urban, and cosmopolitan environment of the South China coast. China also encourages and protects overseas Chinese migrants instead of hating and ignoring them. The World becomes Sinocentric instead of Eurocentric as China grows to dominate it. With tons of Chinese migrants in power in SE Asia and possiby Latin America, Australia, and Western North America, their numbers and the numbers of Chinese without the horrible wars of the Late Qing adds up to a tremendous number. Furthermore, the money and cultural power of Buddhism in this timeline enables it to act like Evangelical Christianity is in OTL, with people in poor countries converting in huge numbers in the modern era.Buddhism also stays strong in other Buddhist countries like Tibet, Japan, Korea,etc instead of fading. Also, Buddhism nabs "pagan" countries like Hawaii and Madagascar that weren't already converted to Christianity. This all might actually make Buddhism the 2nd biggest religion actually.