AHC: Britain with a larger population than Japan

[Kalga]

Britain's living standards after WW2 expanded at the fastest rate in history.

On another point though, rising living standards are not good for population growth, the whole demographic transition and all, and since the premise of this thread is concerned with quantity rather than quality...

... well, somehow keep standards of living low (but industrialization high) for decades. Well, call me when someone finds that unicorn...

 

[NiGHTS]

It would be interesting to explore a scenario where the UK and other nations have enough people to be self-sufficient in feed their populations without depending on imports.

Don't you mean less people, or more land?

 

[Masked Grizzly]

Don't you mean less people, or more land?

Would likely entail less people though depends on the country.

 

[new statesman]

Ok this might be unpopular.

Abortion is never made leagl i the whole uk. As i understand it thats about 8m exstra people. And if the pill is never made legal who knows how many exstra that is.

Also governments after the great war pursue a policy of large family's and give tax breaks for every child born to a family .

You might get there .

 

[StevoJH]

Banning the COCP would probably have resulted in a larger increase in Birth Rate then making Abortion illegal?

 

[new statesman]

Banning the COCP would probably have resulted in a larger increase in Birth Rate then making Abortion illegal?

I Don't disagree no cocp means a much higher birthrate. But its still two million abortions every decade on average for the last four and a half .

That is a genuine factor. And the uk abortion rate has stayed steady at 200k per year for a very long time. Thats more people.

Good chance alot Will emigrate . And a larger younger population might have an efect on net migration to the uk.

So ultimately it only has a chance of pushing up the number alongside things like encourageing large family's. immigration. also a prosperous economy

 

[NiGHTS]

I Don't disagree no cocp means a much higher birthrate. But its still two million abortions every decade on average for the last four and a half .

That is a genuine factor. And the uk abortion rate has stayed steady at 200k per year for a very long time. Thats more people.

Good chance alot Will emigrate . And a larger younger population might have an efect on net migration to the uk.

So ultimately it only has a chance of pushing up the number alongside things like encourageing large family's. immigration. also a prosperous economy

I don't know about that. I figure that a lot of those children who aren't aborted will end up in slums and contribute to a higher rate of crime and poverty. And those immigrants will probably get a lot of hate( and death) since it means they're competing with a larger white British working and lower class.

 

[NiGHTS]

Britain with a much larger population is going to need a lot more skyscrapers to house those people. Otherwise, it will have to build over a bunch more nature and replace it with a concrete jungle.

 

[new statesman]

Yea

I don't know about that. I figure that a lot of those children who aren't aborted will end up in slums and contribute to a higher rate of crime and poverty. And those immigrants will probably get a lot of hate( and death) since it means they're competing with a larger white British working and lower class.

There is a really good chance that the uk could turn into some Malthusian nightmare. But i think that if the us can double its population and still stay prosperous. Then the uk could. I think even France could have double the population if its birthrate had not stagnated in the 19th century. And its funny but the foreign born population of the uk equals roughly the abortion rate . There is no way to get the population up above 129million without expanding imagration and keeping up birthrate above 2.4 children.

 

[new statesman]

Britain with a much larger population is going to need a lot more skyscrapers to house those people. Otherwise, it will have to build over a bunch more nature and replace it with a concrete jungle.

Londons population uesd to be ten million. It actually is something like seven now and after the 60s it technically doubled in size. So i could see twenty million living in greeter London . And you dont need sky scrapers for that. Most of the towerblocks in London house two thirds less than the terrace housing that was pulled down to build them. I know wich i would rather live in.

 

[SealTheRealDeal]

A won’t lead to B or ‘you’re doing it wrong’

It's almost like I admitted that it can rather than absolutely is a plus.

 

[David T]

With a POD no earlier than 1900, your challenge is to give the British Isles a larger population than the Japanese archipelago.

"Before we're through with them, the Japanese language will be spoken only in hell." https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/William_Frederick_Halsey,_Jr.

 

[VictorLaszlo]

I Don't disagree no cocp means a much higher birthrate. But its still two million abortions every decade on average for the last four and a half .

That is a genuine factor. And the uk abortion rate has stayed steady at 200k per year for a very long time. Thats more people.

Good chance alot Will emigrate . And a larger younger population might have an efect on net migration to the uk.

So ultimately it only has a chance of pushing up the number alongside things like encourageing large family's. immigration. also a prosperous economy

200'000 fewer legal abortions will not translate into 200'000 more babies born. What it would mean would be several thousand women of childbearing age dying due to botched illegal abortions, others having their abortions carried out in neighbouring countries, and on top of that people would also be far more careful to not conceive in a world where terminating a pregnancy would be more difficult.

 

[new statesman]

200'000 fewer legal abortions will not translate into 200'000 more babies born. What it would mean would be several thousand women of childbearing age dying due to botched illegal abortions, others having their abortions carried out in neighbouring countries, and on top of that people would also be far more careful to not conceive in a world where terminating a pregnancy would be more difficult.

Dont disagree. But the op said larger population than Japan. And its just one of the things i said like banning the pill increasing birthrate and imagration. But banning abortion would translate into sevral million more people over a 40 year period. Thats just a fact. Buy the way im not against abortion! This is just a scenario .

 

[Colonel Zoidberg]

Nazis win World War 2 but collapses violently in a civil war in the 1960s. Massive immigration into the British Isles and America out of Europe ensues after the fall and decimation of continental Europe

That or the Communists get all of Europe except a small handful of places either under fascist rule or are the epitome of not fucking around, aka the Swiss. Britain becomes the place to go if you want to defect.

For Japan, you can either go with Downfall or you can screw the rebuilding process big time:

 

[The Gunslinger]

Unless you have Japan get hit by a meteor I can't see it happening. Even a 50% increase only puts the British Isles at 108 million.

But your best bet is avoiding the world wars and keeping Britain in a preeminent position longer, and even a major power through simple inertia.

 

[Divergent54]

Unless you have Japan get hit by a meteor I can't see it happening. Even a 50% increase only puts the British Isles at 108 million.

But your best bet is avoiding the world wars and keeping Britain in a preeminent position longer, and even a major power through simple inertia.

That's not going to work much. You need to keep Britain poor and keep British women away from any access to education, careers and work in general, birth control and contraceptives, and abortion. At the same time, keep mortality down with high degree of healthcare services. A combination of the two would keep birth rates up and reduce mortality rates.

Basically turn Britain into the British version of the Handmaid's Tale coupled with a good, quality healthcare system. This will essentially keep birth rates through the roof at the same time mortality rates would be low.

 

[Zachariah]

Lots of people seem to be focusing upon Great Britain- but what about Ireland? Isn't there plenty of room for population growth there to make up the difference, especially seeing as how it's still got a smaller population than it did in the 19th century today?

 

[Jellico]

Isn't there a Month Python song about that?

 

[fasquardon]

Britain with a much larger population is going to need a lot more skyscrapers to house those people. Otherwise, it will have to build over a bunch more nature and replace it with a concrete jungle.

It really doesn't. Apartment blocks between 3 and 5 storeys are very space efficient housing solutions, if such buildings became the predominant form of housing in a Britain with 130 million people, you could house the entire population on a smaller amount of urban land than the UK uses currently.

Abortion is never made leagl i the whole uk. As i understand it thats about 8m exstra people. And if the pill is never made legal who knows how many exstra that is.

Well, generally, countries with abortion restrictions have experienced savage demographic declines. The path of restricting women's rights and access to healthcare seems to slow population growth in the long run, even if the first generation under such a system grows faster.

In general I would say faster growth in the 20th Century could reasonably count on a mix of:

1) A Britain that is able to accommodate Ireland within itself, rather than losing most of the island as per OTL.
2) A more economically interventionist state between 1918 and 1939, meaning the British economy doesn't essentially stagnate between the wars, likely requires the Liberals to hold power for most of this period.
3) A better prepared Britain that is able to defeat Germany faster and with lower costs in WW2, or else WW2 is completely avoided.
4) Britain follows a pro-industry development path post 1945, rather than following OTL's pro-finance development path, which have led to the collapse of British industry and the inflation of a housing bubble that makes starting a family very expensive indeed.
5) A Britain whose political dynamics favour some combination of welcoming immigration or limiting emigration (for example, a tense relationship with the USA that means that a favoured destination for British emigration is no longer welcoming).

So basically, a Britain where the economy was so robust that people could afford to have families earlier and thus tend to have more children, combined with being a beacon for immigrants and a place would-be emigrants want to stay.

I'm not sure all of these things would get Britain above the Japanese population though. Maybe if we cheated a bit and count Dominions in federation with England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland? Indeed, if we just added Canada, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa to the UK population we'd be there without a need for economic and demographic PoDs.

fasquardon