I like the no Second World War/no de Valera ideas, but am not sure how plausible either (or a combination of both) would be. Nonetheless, one question here remains unanswered. Where do the Unionists resettle?
Scotland or maybe South Africa
I like the no Second World War/no de Valera ideas, but am not sure how plausible either (or a combination of both) would be. Nonetheless, one question here remains unanswered. Where do the Unionists resettle?
Scotland or maybe South Africa
I've heard of this multiple times, no one believed me when I mentioned it eitherBoth Chamberlain and Churchill offered De Valera Northern Ireland in return for entering WW2 on the Allied side. Trouble is, in that scenario the British would help put down the loyalist rebellion.
Which of the two groups would have done better in a straight out fight, the IRA or the UVF? Both 1920's versions.
I was under the immpression that the two groups would be pretty equal. More men in the IRA due to the larger population to draw support from, but more firepower from the UVF due to a certain degree of British support.
As for the legitmate Irish army versus the UVF, well I suppose the Ulstermen can always copy the tactics of their Republican counterparts, though the Irish army did pretty well in the Civil War against said tactics.
But maybe the UVF can muster up some sort of Israeli style rage that allows them to pwn any and all enemies that oppose the existance of their state![]()
If timed right. there's also Rhodesia as a possibility I suspect.
oh lord, can you see Ian Paisley with Ian Smith down there![]()
'The Two Ians' seeking to build a 'Protestant Paradise' in Southern Africa.
also, the hight of Rhodesia's white population was 270,000 in 1970, in 1912 there were 460,000 Adult Protestants in Ulster.
Well, there are a few people who would probably be happy to die for the Republic....though I don't think it's anywhere close to that number. Then again how many people at the time will actually be able or willing to fight? It's one thing to say that you swear, it's another to actually get up, put on your bandolier and spend God only know's how long fighting a brutal guerilla campaign.there are differences, to a man the UVF are WWI vets, this is much less true of the IRA, the IRA during both the Anglo-Irish and Civil Wars were almost always short on arms and ammo, the UVF had lots of stock piles of arms plus no shortage of people in the UK willing to sell or give them guns, it wouldn't be shocking if left over artillery from the war found its way into the UVF's hands, also more or less every Unionist (460,000 men and women) signed (some in blood) the Ulster Covenant of 1912 which stated:
BEING CONVINCED in our consciences that Home Rule would be disastrous to the material well-being of Ulster as well as of the whole of Ireland, subversive of our civil and religious freedom, destructive of our citizenship, and perilous to the unity of the Empire, we, whose names are underwritten, men of Ulster, loyal subjects of His Gracious Majesty King George V., humbly relying on the God whom our fathers in days of stress and trial confidently trusted, do hereby pledge ourselves in solemn Covenant, throughout this our time of threatened calamity, to stand by one another in defending, for ourselves and our children, our cherished position of equal citizenship in the United Kingdom, and in using all means which may be found necessary to defeat the present conspiracy to set up a Home Rule Parliament in Ireland. And in the event of such a Parliament being forced upon us, we further solemnly and mutually pledge ourselves to refuse to recognize its authority. In sure confidence that God will defend the right, we hereto subscribe our names.they'll fight to the death all of them, Southern Ireland had little of that unity of purpose
I've heard of this multiple times, no one believed me when I mentioned it either
No one ever believes you when you float the idea that Churchill was not 100% commited to maintining the British Empire completely![]()
Well, there are a few people who would probably be happy to die for the Republic....though I don't think it's anywhere close to that number. Then again how many people at the time will actually be able or willing to fight? It's one thing to say that you swear, it's another to actually get up, put on your bandolier and spend God only know's how long fighting a brutal guerilla campaign.
Trying telling that to just about everybody in Ulster in the 1930'sWell, it's not as if Ulster was an integral part of the British Empire like India![]()
Tell me about it, for about three months of the year a big banner of King Billy is stuck up on the main road to my schoolwell the UVF was 100,000 men strong (likely would of been all 230,000 men that signed but they were limited out fear what the Brits would think) they got themselves in 1914, 20,000 guns and 3,000,000 rounds from the Germans (thats one shipment) when the war broke out in Europe they joined the army and formed the 36th (Ulster) Division I can't prove that'd all fight but I think they would of, every year (even today) in July they have the Orange Marches to celebrate the Siege of Derry and the Battle of the Boyne, marshal glory and all that is a big part of the identity of the Unionists of Ulster.
Okay, I see your point. The UVF are more badass then I first took them for![]()
That could be consequential.
Although, settlement at any point in Rhodesia is unlikely I suppose.
Would his help or hurt the Conservative Party given its poor showing in Scotland generally since the Thatcher era?