AHC: Break up the USA Post-1865

[Shtudmuffin]

So your challenge is to cause the US to break up into 2 or more states with a PoD after the American Civil War. Reconstruction PoDs are allowed, but bonus points will be awarded for those who avoid them altogether. More bonus points if you can outright Balkanize the US into 8+ independent states.

 

[Dathi THorfinnsson]

So your challenge is to cause the US to break up into 2 or more states with a PoD after the American Civil War. Reconstruction PoDs are allowed, but bonus points will be awarded for those who avoid them altogether. More bonus points if you can outright Balkanize the US into 8+ independent states.

Easy. Puerto Rico votes for independence.

Depending on definitions wecould have
Puerto Rico
Guam
American Samoa
Us virgin islands
Micronesia
Two states in the phillipines
The 50 states.

There, thats eight.

 

[Zuvarq]

Reconstruction fails more than OTL. Jim Crow and segregation is even worse.

After a Southern Pride party wins election sometime in the 20th century, a communist black nationalist state and New England both secede.

 

[Shtudmuffin]

Easy. Puerto Rico votes for independence.

Depending on definitions wecould have
Puerto Rico
Guam
American Samoa
Us virgin islands
Micronesia
Two states in the phillipines
The 50 states.

There, thats eight.

Ok, you know what I meant, let's not be a smartass please.

 

[Tripwire]

1962-1992: Global thermonuclear war results in the bands of survivors from the once highly-populated United States forming into at least 20 distinct and fluctuating groups, eventually stabilizing into small local polities as the desperate search for resources dies down and settlements become more permanent.

 

[Shtudmuffin]

1962-1992: Global thermonuclear war results in the bands of survivors from the once highly-populated United States forming into at least 20 distinct and fluctuating groups, eventually stabilizing into small local polities as the search for resources dies down and settlements become more permanent.

Pre-1900. Jesus, guys, it can't be that hard.

 

[Meerkat92]

Pre-1900. Jesus, guys, it can't be that hard.

Well it is. Sad to say it, but severe, geopolitics-shattering events don't happen every year, and we went through a very long, very boring period ofter the Civil War where nothing really happened diplomatically and the US stayed out of everyone's way. A good PoD for this would be rather hard to find, sorry to say.

 

[Tripwire]

Pre-1900. Jesus, guys, it can't be that hard.

You want me to break the US into up to 8 pieces with a POD between the years 1866 and 1899. Sorry, but unless a meteor hits, I think it can't be done. Nation break-ups are usually centuries in the making, they don't just appear out of thin air unless society itself is breaking down. The major faultline in the US just blew, and there isn't really another one at this point in time.

 

[asupackman]

You want me to break the US into up to 8 pieces with a POD between the years 1866 and 1899. Sorry, but unless a meteor hits, I think it can't be done. Nation break-ups are usually long in the making, they just appear out of thin air unless society itself is breaking down.

Plus the OP doesnt say it has to be before 1900, it just says after the civil war.

 

[Shtudmuffin]

You want me to break the US into up to 8 pieces with a POD between the years 1866 and 1899. Sorry, but unless a meteor hits, I think it can't be done. Nation break-ups are usually centuries in the making, they don't just appear out of thin air unless society itself is breaking down. The major faultline in the US just blew, and there isn't really another one at this point in time.

So your challenge is to cause the US to break up into 2 or more states with a PoD after the American Civil War. Reconstruction PoDs are allowed, but bonus points will be awarded for those who avoid them altogether. More bonus points if you can outright Balkanize the US into 8+ independent states.

The 8+ states was a bonus. And for good reason.

And nation break-ups, while often caused by ethnic divisions centuries in the making, are also possible via ideological differences, opposition to those currently in power, foreign invasion and/or intervention, or regional economic differences (and while I know that last one was just settled in Post-ACW US, there are chances of the issue resurfacing later on with enough mismanagement). At least, from what I know.

 

[Shtudmuffin]

Plus the OP doesnt say it has to be before 1900, it just says after the civil war.

The discussion board that this thread was posted (Before 1900) in implies that the PoD must be before 1900. I am aware that by the 20th century, it is absolutely impossible by all means to break up the US; otherwise, I would have posted this in After 1900 as well.

 

[Tripwire]

The 8+ states was a bonus. And for good reason.

And nation break-ups, while often caused by ethnic divisions centuries in the making, are also possible via ideological differences, opposition to those currently in power, foreign invasion and/or intervention, or regional economic differences (and while I know that last one was just settled in Post-ACW US, there are chances of the issue resurfacing later on with enough mismanagement). At least, from what I know.

And ideological or regional differences strong enough to break up a state are usually also close to centuries in the making. Give me some counter-examples and I'll amend that. Can't think of any examples for opposition to those currently in power, either.

I'll give you foreign invasion, but nothing really threatens the US's territory in the years 1866-1899.

The discussion board that this thread was posted (Before 1900) in implies that the PoD must be before 1900. I am aware that by the 20th century, it is absolutely impossible by all means to break up the US; otherwise, I would have posted this in After 1900 as well.

Impossible? That's a little strong. What about my nuclear holocaust scenario?

 

[Shtudmuffin]

And ideological or regional differences strong enough to break up a state are usually also close to centuries in the making. Give me some counter-examples and I'll amend that. Can't think of any examples for opposition to those currently in power, either.

Ideological differences:

-Russian Civil War/Chinese Civil War (Different ideological groups occupied different tracts of territory)

Opposition to those in power:

-Kingdom of Tungning (Not exactly a Civil War, but I think you should know what I'm getting at)

Regional differences:

-Southern/Northern US (the obvious example)

And though I forgot to bring this up, have been rebellion movements in history that has broken out for a really spontaneous reason, including (the only one I can remember as of yet):

-Taiping rebellion

And there's also demographic change (though the following example is a bad analogy):

-Republic of Texas


Give me time, I could probably gather some more examples.

Impossible? That's a little strong. What about my nuclear holocaust scenario?

That's not really the US breaking up, though. That's more like completely annihilating the United States and having several states rise from its ashes.

 

[scholar]

Its not as hard as you think, the aftermath of the civil war was a time where things theoretically could get a lot worse. It was by all regards a vulnerable and beaten country. Before anyone goes on about how the 'Union won the Civil War!' you seem to forget that the fact that it was a civil war. Ergo, all that scorched earth and military occupation is occurring within itself, not in some foreign land that Americans couldn't really concern themselves with. The damage done would take many decades, spark social change on such a scale that would be unseen in the country for the rest of its existence, and forced the United States to fill in the void left by the Southern Economy with neighboring countries. If not the megalithic British and French there was still Latin America.

It doesn't take much to cause fault lines to etch into the country, especially in the south and there were plenty of other issues that could be pushed if one wanted another division. Eight is a pretty big number for this, but its not as bad as one might think. All one needs is for the country to splint in two decently sized parts and merely have one of the halves, either the secessionists or the union, collapse itself along state lines with some remaining and others leaving on their own.

 

[azander12]

I just don't think it's possible to break up the USA into that many pieces after the Civil War, not without a major global cataclysm. A Yellowstone Eruption might do...

As for a Southern Victory scenario, that is quite easy. The Confederacy could easily break down, especially if the boll weevil hits somewhat earlier and Texas decides to get the hell out of Dodge. The rest of the country could easily split. My favourite idea is where a military coup occurs in the rump USA shortly after the war led by a populist clique of army officers, and a group of politicians flee west, establishing a government in exile in California which eventually evolves effectively into a Californian republic. In between, Deseret breaks off, as does Missouri, which casts itself as a neutral, slaveholding republic between the North and South, making money through river traffic and smuggling all way.