AHC: Brazil the Portuguese Canada

Wasn't it already to an extent in the early 19th. Century? If memory serves, the Portuguese crown even sought shelter there during the Napoleonic War until things blew over and became safe to seafare their way back to Lisbon.
 

guinazacity

Banned
Maybe leaving Portugal under french domination for longer will help, since the Portuguese liberals in the porto revolution planned to reverse Brazil's status back to colony when king john returned to Portugal
 
This would be rather difficult as the Napoleonic Wars helped plant the seeds of Brazilian Nationhood. Furthermore, Brazil's population also eclipses Portugal's fairly early so having it have a Britain/Canada dynamic is extremely difficult without much earlier POD's that would change so much.
 
I don't quite understand the challenge. In what way(s) do you want this alt-Brazil to resemble Canada?

Being a dominion?
Having a higher standard of living?
Being a lightly populated giant?
 
OPTION 1:
Extend the United Kingdom of Portugal, Brazil and Algarves lifespan. Soon or later Brazil and Portugal would like to separate their institutions and Brazil could accept to become a Dominion, with the King in Lisbon as Head of State.

OPTION 2: The War of Independence ends in a draw, with Brazil accepting King João VI as Chief of State but remaining fairly independent.

OPTION 3: During the War of Independence, the northern provinces of Grão-Pará and Maranhão (see map) were pro-Portugal as they are technically nearer Lisbon than Rio de Janeiro. Make Emperor D. Pedro II unable to expel the Portuguese and accept a peace treaty where the North will remain under the rule of his father.
This future Grão-Pará would be nearer Canadá in terms of population, fitting best this challenge.
 

katchen

Banned
Basically, Braganza, Brazil went independent in large part due to the influence of Great Britain. The British wanted above all to keep Angola and Mozambique and the rest of the Portuguese Empire away from Brazil, ostensibly to help suppress the slave trade between Africa and Brazil but in reality because the British simply did not want Portugal as a competitor in the South Atlantic and Indian Oceans (remember, the Portuguese also had Goa and other locations in India, which the British did not yet completely control, Macao and East Timor in addition to Angola and Mozambique, which bracketed the Cape. The British never shared power gracefully, even with "friends" and certainly not when they were riding high in the early 19th Century.
So for Brazil to remain a dominion (or overseas territory of Portugal, or vice versa, Portugal an overseas territory of Brazil) , Brazil needs to do a couple things to hold it's own with Great Britain.
1. Brazil-Portugal needs to embark on a naval expansion programme FROM BRAZIL during the Napoleonic Wars. Brazil certainly has the wood to build good ships of the line and the tall trees for masts, even if they have to do some of their building at Belem, in Amazonas. And enough of a navy to train more navy.
2. Invest and get hold of those new fangled steamboats from the United States as soon as possible and start to use them on the Amazon, expanding to coastal shipping as soon as possible. This will be about 1819-20.
3. KEEP THE MONARCHY AND THE CAPITAL AT RIO DE JANEIRO AND RESIST PRESSURE TO SEND THE KING TO PORTUGAL WHEN REVOLUTION THREATENS. The Holy Alliance will finally put down the Revolution in Portugal and the status quo, as bizarre as a piece of Europe being governed from South America is, can remain.
In that way, there is nothing to negotiate with Great Britain. And when Simon Bolivar and Jose de San Martin threaten to drive Spain from South America, Brazil can send reinforcements at least to Peru and possibly even send troops via the Cassiaquare Canal and the Meta River, to Bogota to engage and defeat Simon Bolivar there. Then follow up by taking the La Plata region and Paraguay by land and by sea landings. Chile might remain independent and good riddance. Admiral Cochrane's fleet will not be enough to tip the balance in favour of independence if Portugal can get to Peru and New Granada by river, which, with steamboats on the Amazon and Rio Negro and Putomayo, they can.
Once the British are baulked, they will learn to live with a fait accompli regarding Brazil, just as they have the United States.
 
You need joao and pedro 1 to be visionaries. Neither were. Joao had his shining moment when he transferred to brazil and in the first decade there. Otherwise he was subpar. Pedro was good at declaring indepence (when he should have been looking to figuring out how to create a dual kingdom). Otherwise, he was subpar.

If the two had been up to the task, some sort of new empire was feasible, though certainly difficult. Instead, they drifted on the tides, and then reacted.
 
Basically, Braganza, Brazil went independent in large part due to the influence of Great Britain. The British wanted above all to keep Angola and Mozambique and the rest of the Portuguese Empire away from Brazil, ostensibly to help suppress the slave trade between Africa and Brazil but in reality because the British simply did not want Portugal as a competitor in the South Atlantic and Indian Oceans (remember, the Portuguese also had Goa and other locations in India, which the British did not yet completely control, Macao and East Timor in addition to Angola and Mozambique, which bracketed the Cape. The British never shared power gracefully, even with "friends" and certainly not when they were riding high in the early 19th Century.
So for Brazil to remain a dominion (or overseas territory of Portugal, or vice versa, Portugal an overseas territory of Brazil) , Brazil needs to do a couple things to hold it's own with Great Britain.
1. Brazil-Portugal needs to embark on a naval expansion programme FROM BRAZIL during the Napoleonic Wars. Brazil certainly has the wood to build good ships of the line and the tall trees for masts, even if they have to do some of their building at Belem, in Amazonas. And enough of a navy to train more navy.
2. Invest and get hold of those new fangled steamboats from the United States as soon as possible and start to use them on the Amazon, expanding to coastal shipping as soon as possible. This will be about 1819-20.
3. KEEP THE MONARCHY AND THE CAPITAL AT RIO DE JANEIRO AND RESIST PRESSURE TO SEND THE KING TO PORTUGAL WHEN REVOLUTION THREATENS. The Holy Alliance will finally put down the Revolution in Portugal and the status quo, as bizarre as a piece of Europe being governed from South America is, can remain.
In that way, there is nothing to negotiate with Great Britain.

I was following you but I lost you here:

And when Simon Bolivar and Jose de San Martin threaten to drive Spain from South America, Brazil can send reinforcements at least to Peru and possibly even send troops via the Cassiaquare Canal and the Meta River, to Bogota to engage and defeat Simon Bolivar there.
Why should Brazil care about Bolivar?

Then follow up by taking the La Plata region and Paraguay by land and by sea landings.
Are you suggesting Brazil conquering and annexing Argentina? Because that's an overstretch...
 
taking over argentina is a stretch under most realistic tl's, but IF the portuguese had managed to develop any sort of military competency circa 1800ish, they certainly could have taken a nice bite of it - bare minimum: uruguay,entre rios, paraguay. If they could have managed buenos aires, the riches of the pampas/patagonia are theirs (that's a bit of a wank, though).

Of course, if they had any military sense, they might not have been driven out of portugal!
 
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