AHC: Brazil joins the Axis

With the latest possible POD, how could Brazil join Italy, Germany, and Japan in WW2?

I'd say 'the latest possible POD' would still be pretty early.

Brazil's leadership was painfully aware how vulnerable Brazil was to any attack by the British and US military, how inadequate Brazilian industry was to sustain a war effort like the one needed to be an important belligerent(and Brazil would have to be one, if the war was to last more than 3 months), and how little Germany, Italy and Japan could help them.

I don't think you could change these factors with a 20th-century POD.
 

TFSmith121

Banned
Don't forget the Britain/France/Spain/Ruritania intervenes

After the successful Sea Lion and Transatlantic Sea Lion against the US happens anything becomes possible.;)

Don't forget the Britain/France/Spain/Ruritania intervenes during the US Civil War to give the rebels independence because profit.:rolleyes:

Best,
 
Welp, only 1 post before the thread devolved into mocking the OP. That's gotta be a record.

Anyway, I agree that Brazil joining has to be early, probably between the fall of France and the end of 1941 when Germany seemed about to knock the Soviets out.
That makes me wonder how Plan Rubber would have gone out, especially since, as unprepared as Brazil was, the US still took almost a year since the German DOW to do anything of importance (in Africa at least). That said, a blockade could have been enough, and it could lead to an interesting civil war between pro-Allies Air Force and pro-Nazi Army.
 

Anaxagoras

Banned
You'd need a POD long before the war. For one thing, I think you'd have to had political developments in the United States go in such a direction that the government becomes so isolationist that any chance of America entering the war is gone. Brazil is not going to risk anything that would bring it into conflict with the United States.
 
You'd need a POD long before the war. For one thing, I think you'd have to had political developments in the United States go in such a direction that the government becomes so isolationist that any chance of America entering the war is gone. Brazil is not going to risk anything that would bring it into conflict with the United States.

There is no chance of brazilian joining the axis, even if the USA joined the axis, Brazil still would not do it, the brazilian population barely reached 40 million, our army was outdated and our navy had only two (old) dreadnoughts, Brazil only joined the allies because we were forced to do it and because the americans heavily invested in Brazil
 

TFSmith121

Banned
Okay, but the realities are:

That's why it's a challenge and not a what if. I didn't think it was likely.

Okay, but the realities are:

1) The US, UK, and France all had far greater economic ties with Latin America and vice-versa in the 1930s than Germany or Italy did with the Latin American republics;
2) The US and UK all had far greater abilities to project power (military, economic, diplomatic, and political) into Latin America than the Axis powers did;
3) The US and UK in fact, did project power (military, economic, diplomatic, and political) into Latin America during the 1930s and 1940s; the Axis did not because they could not;
4) The Latin American republics all gain from an alliance with the US and UK; they do nothing but expose themselves to heavy loss if they ally with the Axis powers.

IF the world is anywhere close to history as in terms of a world war in the 1940s with the US and UK as allies or friendly neutrals in response to anything resembling an Italo-German alliance, there's no way it makes any sort of sense - strategic, economic, diplomatic, political, or military - for any of the Latin American republics to actively allign with the Axis.

It's more than unlikely; it's essentially suicidal.

Best,
 
I think you'd need a very strong anti-British sentiment in the US first. The PODs I have in mind is essentially in the same mold as the dubious explosion on the USS Maine that led to the Spanish-American War.

1917: A British double agent, under most secret orders, gives the route of the the Lusitania to the German navy, in order to bring the Americans into the war. In addition, the Lusitania becomes publicly admitted to have been carrying war supplies. In addition, the author of the Zimmerman telegram is later revealed to have been a deep cover British agent within the German government and thus a forgery. These are both almost ASB premises, admittedly, as a war could break out with the US over it.

In addition to this, have the British remain strong allies with the Japanese in the Pacific and have them divide it between themselves instead of Japan becoming more anticolonial.

Hitler might get butterflied simply because the US would be a lot closer to Germany and less hostile if they'd felt duped into war with them by the "real" enemy.
 
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