AHC: Brazil attempts to seize British South Atlantic islands

During the Falklands War, Brazil joins with Argentina and attempts to seize the scattered British islands in the South Atlantic (St. Helena, Ascension, Tristan da Cunha). Will they be successful?
 
Looking at a map, St. Helena is is closer to Africa than to South America. Does Brazil have any historical claim to this island, or even a sense of rightful ownership, around which to rally public opinion?
 
With what?

The British do have a couple of aircraft carriers with naval fighters aboard. The Brazilians have a helicopter carrier, Minas Gerais, built in 1942. the Marinha has no fighters, and the Fuerza Aérea has no trained pilots for operating from the Minas Gerais - assuming any of its fighters could operate from that deck.

So who has air cover over St. Helena and the rest? The British.
 
With what?

The British do have a couple of aircraft carriers with naval fighters aboard. The Brazilians have a helicopter carrier, Minas Gerais, built in 1942. the Marinha has no fighters, and the Fuerza Aérea has no trained pilots for operating from the Minas Gerais - assuming any of its fighters could operate from that deck.

So who has air cover over St. Helena and the rest? The British.

Brazil got two modernized WWII aircraft carriers, so a task force can be made

HOWEVER

There is no reason to do that, no one wanted these islands here. I suggest we move this thread to ASB.

Edit: It is Força Aérea, not Fuerza aérea.
 
Brazil got two modernized WWII aircraft carriers, so a task force can be made

When I say Minas Gerais, built 1942, that's exactly what I mean. I don't know about the second. Can you specify which Brazilian fighter jets could operate from the Minas Gerais or the other in 1982? My impression is, none.
 
Forward operating positions for the conquest of Lusophone Africa, of course.

:p TIME FOR LUSOTROPICALISM!


Translating the chorus:

"The map is wrong,
This cannot be right,
Brazil and Portugal,
are not far, they are close!

Remove the ocean,
End the confusion!
Brazil and Portugal,
Are the same in one heart!"
 
When I say Minas Gerais, built 1942, that's exactly what I mean. I don't know about the second. Can you specify which Brazilian fighter jets could operate from the Minas Gerais or the other in 1982? My impression is, none.

The second is the former Fs Foch, renamed to São Paulo. But as I did a research I found out that you are right, it was only bought in 2000 so as you said only the Minas Gerais would be active in 1982.

Still, I insist that this is a ASB scenario, there is no reason (apart from the memey "FREE AFRICA WE ARE LUSOS!") to make such a mission, it would end with thousands of brazilian sailors dead, maybe hundreds of british dead and none gain for Brazil, our Junta was not as desesperated as the american one.
 
The second is the former Fs Foch, renamed to São Paulo. But as I did a research I found out that you are right, it was only bought in 2000 so as you said only the Minas Gerais would be active in 1982.

But the Foch was not a WWII modernized ship. That one was built in the late 1950s and explictily in order to be able to handle fighter jets. Only, as you say it wasn't Brazilian in 1982.

Still, I insist that this is a ASB scenario,

I never said it wasn't - among other reasons, because Brazil just could not deploy the necessary means.
 
But the Foch was not a WWII modernized ship. That one was built in the late 1950s and explictily in order to be able to handle fighter jets. Only, as you say it wasn't Brazilian in 1982.



I never said it wasn't - among other reasons, because Brazil just could not deploy the necessary means.


We agree a hundred percent. I was wrong about it being a WWII ship and it being active on the brazilian fleet in 1982, my error, I admit it.
 
The second is the former Fs Foch, renamed to São Paulo. But as I did a research I found out that you are right, it was only bought in 2000 so as you said only the Minas Gerais would be active in 1982.

Still, I insist that this is a ASB scenario, there is no reason (apart from the memey "FREE AFRICA WE ARE LUSOS!") to make such a mission, it would end with thousands of brazilian sailors dead, maybe hundreds of british dead and none gain for Brazil, our Junta was not as desesperated as the american one.
The American junta? I know Ronald Reagan is unpopular on AH.com but I do not think he ran a junta.
 
Move your POD farther back and have Brazil more active in Portuguese-speaking colonies in Africa during the early 20-th century.
This follows from my incomplete “Air Whales Over the Congo” novel.
 
The brazilian Junta, under general Figueiredo.

I have nothing against Reagan because I never studied him.
Your previous post says the Brazilean Junta wasn't as desperate as the American. I assume you meant Argentinian and was trying to make a joke.
 
With what?

The British do have a couple of aircraft carriers with naval fighters aboard. The Brazilians have a helicopter carrier, Minas Gerais, built in 1942. the Marinha has no fighters, and the Fuerza Aérea has no trained pilots for operating from the Minas Gerais - assuming any of its fighters could operate from that deck.

So who has air cover over St. Helena and the rest? The British.
The aircraft carriers with fighters on them were preoccupied recovering the Falklands.

St Helena didn't have an airstrip in 1982. Prince Andrew made a royal visit to the island in the early 1980s and he had to go by ship.

I suspect that Tristan da Cunha didn't have one at the time either.

IIRC there was a flight of Phantoms or Harriers providing air cover for Ascension Island. I'll give you that one.
 
The aircraft carriers with fighters on them were preoccupied recovering the Falklands.

St Helena didn't have an airstrip in 1982. Prince Andrew made a royal visit to the island in the early 1980s and he had to go by ship.

I suspect that Tristan da Cunha didn't have one at the time either.

IIRC there was a flight of Phantoms or Harriers providing air cover for Ascension Island. I'll give you that one.

So you are saying that Ascension can't be occupied by the Brazilian navy, while the other two islands can - but then the Royal Navy aircraft carriers can pay a visit and the Brazilians are like the Argentineans at the Falklands, save that the islands are five to ten times farther away from the continent and the Brazilians can't base fighters on the islands.
 
With what?

The British do have a couple of aircraft carriers with naval fighters aboard. The Brazilians have a helicopter carrier, Minas Gerais, built in 1942. the Marinha has no fighters, and the Fuerza Aérea has no trained pilots for operating from the Minas Gerais - assuming any of its fighters could operate from that deck.

So who has air cover over St. Helena and the rest? The British.
The Brazilians didn't have a helicopter carrier in 1982. They had a light fleet carrier.

Mina Gerais formerly HMS (and HMAS) Vengeance was a Colossus class aircraft carrier completed in 1945 and a sister ship of HMS Venerable which the British sold to the Netherlands as the Karen Doorman and the Dutch sold on to Argentina as Veinticinco de Mayo.

It was rebuilt at the Verolme Dockyard, Rotterdam 1957-60, which had recently built the Karel Doorman and to a similar standard. Both ships received a steam catapult and an 8½ degree angled flight deck.

Her air group in 1983 (source An Illustrated Guide to Modern Naval Aviation and Aircraft Carriers, by John Jordan) was 8 S-2E Trackers, 4 SH-3D Sea King, 2 Bell 206s and 2 SA-530 Ecureuils.

The FAB did have a number of A-4F Skyhawks. I don't know if they were carrier capable, but Minas Gerais was perfectly capable of operating them if they were. She was also perfectly capable of operating the Argentine Navy's A-4Q Skyhawks if there were any to spare.
 
So you are saying that Ascension can't be occupied by the Brazilian navy, while the other two islands can - but then the Royal Navy aircraft carriers can pay a visit and the Brazilians are like the Argentineans at the Falklands, save that the islands are five to ten times farther away from the continent and the Brazilians can't base fighters on the islands.
They could probably occupy Ascension too, because there were no British forces based there until after Argentina invaded the Falklands and it's the island that they aught to take first.

The stumbling blocks are the Americans and logistics. The USAF and NASA had facilities on the island so the US Government may not take kindly to the Brazilians invading. It might be logistically because the Brazilian navy did have a tanker and some amphibious shipping. I'm looking up the Brazilian Navy at the time of the Falklands now.

Keeping them will be more difficult, but in the short term the Royal Navy is likely to be in no condition to retake the Brazilian held islands due to the damage it received retaking the Falklands.
 

Lusitania

Donor
They could probably occupy Ascension too, because there were no British forces based there until after Argentina invaded the Falklands and it's the island that they aught to take first.

The stumbling blocks are the Americans and logistics. The USAF and NASA had facilities on the island so the US Government may not take kindly to the Brazilians invading. It might be logistically because the Brazilian navy did have a tanker and some amphibious shipping. I'm looking up the Brazilian Navy at the time of the Falklands now.

Keeping them will be more difficult, but in the short term the Royal Navy is likely to be in no condition to retake the Brazilian held islands due to the damage it received retaking the Falklands.

If the Brazilian junta all drank crazy juice maybe the British shipped bad scotch to Brazil resulting in the death of thousand of Brazilians and the government decided to attack the closest British possessions in retaliation at same time the Argentinian invasion of Falklands then the British would of attacked those bases first wiping them out and securing forward bases before moving forward to the Falklands.
 
If the Brazilian junta all drank crazy juice maybe the British shipped bad scotch to Brazil resulting in the death of thousand of Brazilians and the government decided to attack the closest British possessions in retaliation at same time the Argentinian invasion of Falklands then the British would of attacked those bases first wiping them out and securing forward bases before moving forward to the Falklands.
I half agree with you.

Where I agree is that the idea that the Brazilian Government would want to capture the islands in the first place is absurd.

AFAIK the Brazilian Government supported the UK IOTL with the result the Embraer-Short team won the contract to build the Jet Provost replacement.

Where I disagree is that the Brazilian armed forces might have had the capability to capture Ascension Island in 1982. I'm looking into that now.

Once taken and the runway repaired Ascension Island is probably a easer to hold than the Falklands because said runway can be used by FAB Tiger IIs, Mirages and Skyhawks.
 
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