AHC: Black Pope

There are, in 2009, 158 million Catholics in Africa, majority of them in sub-Saharan Africa, and they've always been there historically since the age of discovery.

So, is it possible that some point in time a Pope comes from Sub-Saharan Africa?
 
There are, in 2009, 158 million Catholics in Africa, majority of them in sub-Saharan Africa, and they've always been there historically since the age of discovery.

So, is it possible that some point in time a Pope comes from Sub-Saharan Africa?

Realistically this belongs in after 1900, as there's absolutely no chance of an African Pope before the late 1900s. Remember that until John Paul II's election the Papacy had been exclusively held by Italians and I doubt that the Cardinals would pick a Pope from outside Europe at this point. Your best bet would be Cardinal Peter Turkson of Ghana. He was considered Papabile during the 2013 conclave and a only 65, he could end up the first African Pope when Pope Francis' successor is chosen.
 
Would this thread have been in Post-1900, I would have said it could possibly happen after the 1970's and more likely with time.

In Pre-1900 though...
It should have been before Islamic invasions, as afterwards, Christianity becames essentially an european religion from one hand (yes, I know, you have african churches but they weren't in connexion with Rome); and papacy became largely tied to italian or western european politics (even if it did had an idependence at several points).

Black saints aren't unheard of as Saint Maurice, but it's likely a medieval exoticism.

Eventually, if Roman Empire had deeper ties with Subsaharian Africa (something towards what Arabo-Islamic North Africa had), you would have better chances to have blacks individuals or even groups christianised within the empire.

Of course from that to having popes is still a gap, but it's a necessary foundation.
 

RavenMM

Banned
Remember that until John Paul II's election the Papacy had been exclusively held by Italians and I doubt that the Cardinals would pick a Pope from outside Europe at this point.

Did you ever take a look on the list of popes? There were many many who were not italians. E.g. there even was a pope of berber origin, Gelasius I
 
Remember that until John Paul II's election the Papacy had been exclusively held by Italians.

Pope Adrian IV was English, and with the secular name of Nicholas Breakspear. And as mentioned there have been at least a few Popes hailing from Roman North Africa, which aren't part of Europe (although to be fair it is more part of the Mediterranian cultural region than an African cultural region)

and then there's all the Coptic popes in Alexandria
 
Did you ever take a look on the list of popes? There were many many who were not italians. E.g. there even was a pope of berber origin, Gelasius I

Yeah I'm talking about in RECENT history. From the early Reformation to the election of John Paul II the Papacy was the exclusive property of the Italians. The only way you could realistically get a Pope of African origin would be an appointed one by an Emperor. Considering that there had been Roman Emperors of numerous ethnicities, its not unrealistic to think that an Emperor would appoint a countryman or close friend from home as Pope. Besides that, I just can't see this happening before 1900.
 

RavenMM

Banned
Yeah I'm talking about in RECENT history. From the early Reformation to the election of John Paul II the Papacy was the exclusive property of the Italians. The only way you could realistically get a Pope of African origin would be an appointed one by an Emperor. Considering that there had been Roman Emperors of numerous ethnicities, its not unrealistic to think that an Emperor would appoint a countryman or close friend from home as Pope. Besides that, I just can't see this happening before 1900.

In Before 1900, there is no recent history :p

Still, the exaple shows that it is possible to get a black pope, you just have to start very early. Maybe mroe roman conquest in africa helps and ethiopia not developing it's own church.
 
Combination of the following for a pre-modern sub-Saharan African pope:

* Failed northern European Christianisation / successful spread of Anglo-Germano-Scandinavian pagan religion (and possibly stronger resistance of Slavic religion to Christianity needed too) is needed to stop the papal seat fleeing north.
* Successful non-Catholic invasion of Rome needed. This could be from a schismatic anti-pope or the Vikings. Note though that if this is from an anti-pope, politics will more or less ensure that the anti-pope will effectively be the new pope, and the original pope would go down in history as the anti-pope.
* Viable escape route into Africa; this means Egypt and/or Morocco must not have been Islamicised by the time Rome falls.

Alexandria is most likely to end up as the papal seat in this scenario. Ethiopia or even Zanzibar are distant second choices, depending on later politics.
 
I think the best chance for a black pope is a failure of Islam so that North Africa remains Christian. I could see an African pope being elected to gain support of sub-Saharan Christians in the Papacy's struggle against the Orthodox Catholics.
 
The easy way is to have the Aksumite Church breaking ties with Alexandria and chose for some reason to follow Rome's lead; the best time to do so is probably the immediate aftermath of the Arabian invasions of Egypt. That's going to be largely theoretical, and I actually can see the Aksumite rulers sticking to such a course of action precisely because, as far from Rome as they are, Roman allegiance means in practice that they can do whatever the hell they want in religious matters while having theoretical sanction from a prestigious patriarchal seat.
Fast forward a few centuries and, if you manage to keep this allegiance stick, clergyman from Ethiopia can be elected as Popes in the Middle Ages.
 
The easy way is to have the Aksumite Church breaking ties with Alexandria and chose for some reason to follow Rome's lead; the best time to do so is probably the immediate aftermath of the Arabian invasions of Egypt. That's going to be largely theoretical, and I actually can see the Aksumite rulers sticking to such a course of action precisely because, as far from Rome as they are, Roman allegiance means in practice that they can do whatever the hell they want in religious matters while having theoretical sanction from a prestigious patriarchal seat.
Fast forward a few centuries and, if you manage to keep this allegiance stick, clergyman from Ethiopia can be elected as Popes in the Middle Ages.

In this condition...maybe only as a compromise candidate in case the major European ones are too busy with political infighting (like a Greek Cardinal in 15th century got to be a Papabile, yet lost the election).
 
In this condition...maybe only as a compromise candidate in case the major European ones are too busy with political infighting (like a Greek Cardinal in 15th century got to be a Papabile, yet lost the election).

Agreed, it's the most likely route. Or a widely respected person individual, but it still sort of requires an otherwise deadlocked conclave I suppose.
 
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