John Fredrick Parker
Donor
I'd say the Byzantines are more likely to make allies of the Mongols than enemies; seems their style.Also, since ITTL the Byzantine Empire is actually wealthy and intact, it's possible the Mongols could come knocking.
I'd say the Byzantines are more likely to make allies of the Mongols than enemies; seems their style.Also, since ITTL the Byzantine Empire is actually wealthy and intact, it's possible the Mongols could come knocking.
I think that's more up to the Mongols than anyone else.I'd say the Byzantines are more likely to make allies of the Mongols than enemies; seems their style.
I'd say the Byzantines are more likely to make allies of the Mongols than enemies; seems their style.
I think that's more up to the Mongols than anyone else.
The Mongols probably wouldn't invade the ERE because of the simple problem of geography. Their army was based almost entirely on cavalry, and the ERE territories were very mountainous, especially if Bulgaria is included. Yes, the Mongols could fight in that terrain if they had to, but they must realise they can get more from being at peace with them anyway. Fighting in mountains in a difficult battle distracts from a comparatively easy battle against the Muslims to the south.
- BNC
And before anyone brings up Mazinkert, the Turks did not want to fight in Byzantine territory; the Byzantines themselves forced them to.
Also, considering the entente the Mongols and Byzies/Nicaea had IOTL, it's perfectly possible for the Byzies to bribe the Mongols to keep out.
The Chinese have already invented hand-cannons by the time the Mongols invaded.I just realised something.
Mongol Empire dominating the Roman Empire + China = Gunpowder.
Gunpowder + Roman Metallurgy = Roman Hand-cannons.
Roman Hand-cannons + time = Roman Line Infantry
Roman Line Infantry + time = Lots of pain for non-Romans.
hehehehehe. Cataphracts and Hand Cannons. That could be a timeline title.
The Chinese have already invented hand-cannons by the time the Mongols invaded.
The Byzantines considered everyone born outside the empire to be a barbarian, so if any non-Greek power conquers the empire, it is pretty much inevitable that various Greek despots and strategoi will rebel in attempt to usurp the throne.
I just realised something.
Mongol Empire dominating the Roman Empire + China = Gunpowder.
Gunpowder + Roman Metallurgy = Roman Hand-cannons.
Roman Hand-cannons + time = Roman Line Infantry
Roman Line Infantry + time = Lots of pain for non-Romans.
hehehehehe. Cataphracts and Hand Cannons. That could be a timeline title.
The gunpowder was imported in Europe partially thanks to Pax Mongolica (which secured the trade roads from Europe to China). But just imagine a ERE Army built like the French Army at Castillon in 1453![]()
Something you forget is that no way in hell could the mongols beat the berbers, The mongols are HORSEMAN, this means that they are limited to areas which can support horses. Desserts are not those areas. And even if the mongols could launch an effective invasion of northern africa (which is far from impossible) I don't think the Bedouin would support them. If anything the berbers are more likely to do that. The only supporters the Mongols would have would be Copts, Levantine Christians, Armenians, Druze, Shia?, and Yazidi's (+Christian city of Tikrit) None of those ethnic/religious groups are particularly militant bar the Druze and ShiaThat would be impressive, although finding the composition of that army took me longer than I'd like to admit.
With that army, at the turn of the 14th C - what do you think the Roman Empire could do with a North African invasion? I imagine it might still involve the Mongols, as I don't expect them to collapse till mid-to-late 15th C at the earliest, but would that also include Bedouin auxilaries to fight the Berbers?
A 'Mongol Period' Roman Army backed by Bedouin auxiliaries sounds epic to me, and like it would do well. The auxilaries fight the desert war, and the main army fights in the mountains and on the coasts where they aren't as vulnerable.
Could they win? Would the Mongols back it? Who would be in charge?
Something you forget is that no way in hell could the mongols beat the berbers, The mongols are HORSEMAN, this means that they are limited to areas which can support horses. Desserts are not those areas. And even if the mongols could launch an effective invasion of northern africa (which is far from impossible) I don't think the Bedouin would support them. If anything the berbers are more likely to do that. The only supporters the Mongols would have would be Copts, Levantine Christians, Armenians, Druze, Shia?, and Yazidi's (+Christian city of Tikrit) None of those ethnic/religious groups are particularly militant bar the Druze and Shia
I like the idea of a Byzantine-Ayyubid alliance myself, since before the Mongols show up, the two will have similar enemies (Anatolian Turks, Latin Crusaders, etc).<snip>
Its entirely possible....provided they can agree on how to split the holy land. Personally if they did push out their respective foes, i believe that some sort of buffer state would have to be set up in jerusalem (Neither would accept the other controlling it). Also depends on where the line of control extends, if its at the old Antioch border its a non issue, any further south and there will be tensions.I like the idea of a Byzantine-Ayyubid alliance myself, since before the Mongols show up, the two will have similar enemies (Anatolian Turks, Latin Crusaders, etc).
The Byzantines aren't getting Jerusalem, full stop; their only remotely practical options are seeing it governed by the Crusaders or by the Muslims, and at this point I think they might be okay with the latter.Its entirely possible....provided they can agree on how to split the holy land.
If the Ayyubids allow pilgrims into their territory, then the Byzantines should be happy enough with Ayyubid control over Jerusalem.