AHC: Bavaria Unites Germany

Inspired by my liking/interest of all things Wittelsbach, I was wondering if there was a point (preferably after 1500), where the Wittelsbachs could become the premier power in Germany and assume leadership of the German empire (i.p.v. the Hohenzollerns or the Habsburgs)?
 
Sure. After 1500 seems pretty easy, in fact. They were allies of France in the late 1600s, and Leopold I of Austria almost died in 1670, with only an infant daughter surviving.

Now, there were a variety of claimants who could have claimed the Austrian crown, but the only male was the 4YO king of Spain who could have gone at any moment himself and who many said it was a miracle he lived up to 1701 with the War of Spanish Succession happening when he died.

However, Maria Antonia (the aforementioned girl) and her mother the queen (because Spanish and Austrian Hapsburg relations were... well, intertwined) would be #1 and #2 most likely to claim the throne, and it seems like it'd be pretty through marriage or military might for Bavaria to take it in personal union.

Once that happens, it's not hard to imagine the Wittelsbachs slowly gaining control through marriage, etc. of of other thrones within Germa, and eventually wind up gaining the upper hands versus the Hohenzollerns.
 
Easiest way: Charles V and Ferdinand I dies as kids, then Maximilian's Bavarian nephews are his closest male relatives. I could see Max arranging marriage of his granddaughter Eleanor with his nephew Wilhelm of Bavaria, who would thus rule block of Bavaria, Austria and Low Countries and would likely won Imperial election as well.
 
Easiest way: Charles V and Ferdinand I dies as kids, then Maximilian's Bavarian nephews are his closest male relatives. I could see Max arranging marriage of his granddaughter Eleanor with his nephew Wilhelm of Bavaria, who would thus rule block of Bavaria, Austria and Low Countries and would likely won Imperial election as well.

So, who is going to be the king / queen of Spain in this scenario? Eleanor of Austria?
 
John III Aviz.
Too low in the line of succession... With Charles and Ferdinand Eleanor at this point is the Duchess of Burgundy and heiress of Spain so is better a match with João of Portugal for her, and Isabella or Mary for Wilhelm as the Austrian lands are the only part of the inheritance of Juana and Philip who follow the Salic Law and so can not be inhereited by women
 
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Too low in the line of succession... With Charles and Ferdinand Eleanor at this point is the Duchess of Burgundy and heiress of Spain so is better a match with João of Portugal for her, and Isabella or Mary for Wilhelm as the Austrian lands are the only part of the inheritance of Juana and Philip who follow the Salic Law and so can not be inhereited by women
Max would not let Eleanor to marry João if his grandsons are death. He would want his inheritance to stay within family so he'd marry Eleanor, his heir by primogeniture, to Wilhelm, his closest male relative, to better ensure it. Eleanor would have also best genealogical claim to Spanish throne, but she would not be able to enforce that claim.
 
Another question: what would be the latest point where Bavaria would still be the first amongst the various German states and principalities, or at least the latest point where it would be on par with Prussia?

Or was it simply that the Prussians were the better team players when it came to the More northern German states while Bavaria always was too preoccupied with Austria?
 
Or was it simply that the Prussians were the better team players when it came to the More northern German states while Bavaria always was too preoccupied with Austria?

"Prussians" were not better team players, they just had the same advantages Austria had, (semi-)peripheral location and a lucky ruling house which managed to inherit lots of territory.
 
Another question: what would be the latest point where Bavaria would still be the first amongst the various German states and principalities, or at least the latest point where it would be on par with Prussia?

Or was it simply that the Prussians were the better team players when it came to the More northern German states while Bavaria always was too preoccupied with Austria?

IIRC, on the eve of the proclamation of the German Empire in 1871 Bismarck had Ludwig II of Bavaria sign a renunciation that "he would not seek the imperial title", and Bavaria got a pretty nice deal because Prussia was interested in keeping them friendly. As late as the interim period between the World Wars, there was talk of Bavaria seceding from Germany (joining up with Austria and/or the rest of the south German states) - and the (Wittelsbach) monarchy being restored (I have no idea how plausible this was, I'm just putting it out there that they seemed to sincerely believe that it could happen ICR though if it was two separate ideas - Austria joins Hungary in a Habsburg monarchy (which Mussolini wanted) and Bavaria's monarchy is restored (George V was in favour of the idea, I think) or if it was one idea (Bavaria+Austria+South Germany).
 
"Prussians" were not better team players, they just had the same advantages Austria had, (semi-)peripheral location and a lucky ruling house which managed to inherit lots of territory.

Prussia didn't necessarily inherit as much as she got lucky. Friedrich the Great seized Silesia - and after he died, and despite it being pretty much all downhill from there until Wilhelm I became ruler IMO - Prussia got the Rhineland* after Vienna.

*which Prussia didn't actually want - she wanted Saxony, but the Big Four (Austria, Britain, France, Russia) wanted someone to play watchdog over France. And they'd already given the Nassaus the former Austrian Netherlands, despite said region begging for an archduke. The Nassaus wanted a swathe of land to connect the Netherlands to the ancestral duchy of Nassau (and I think the former Ostfriesland coastline of the North Sea which had been part of the Kingdom of Holland). All in all, I'm surprised what was decided at the Congress actually lasted until 1830 (Belgian Revolution) let alone 1870 (German Unification) since it seems like nobody got what they wanted.
 
Prussia didn't necessarily inherit as much as she got lucky. Friedrich the Great seized Silesia - and after he died, and despite it being pretty much all downhill from there until Wilhelm I became ruler IMO - Prussia got the Rhineland* after Vienna.

They did. Prussia itself was such a territory as well as the first of Berlin's Rhenish territories (Duchy of Cleves, County of Mark and County of Ravensberg).
 
Max would not let Eleanor to marry João if his grandsons are death. He would want his inheritance to stay within family so he'd marry Eleanor, his heir by primogeniture, to Wilhelm, his closest male relative, to better ensure it. Eleanor would have also best genealogical claim to Spanish throne, but she would not be able to enforce that claim.
Eleanor is not and will never be the heiress of Max as the Austrian lands are inheritable only in male line... After the death of her brothers Eleanor will be the Duchess of Burgundy and heiress presuntive of Spain so she will marry for the good of either country...
Kill off Karl and Ferdinand and Austria will not have any heir so either Maximilian (or his successor as HRE) will be free to assign Austria to anyone. Max here will likely assign them to Wilhelm marrying him to either Isabella or Mary (aka the two granddaughters who he is free to marry off)
 
With a POD limit of 1500, you can just remove the Hohenzollerns from ever rising as a power. No need to make a change in 1700.

Alter the Wars of Religion in Germany. A greater portion of Germany ends up Catholic, but a combination of the Hasburgs being too consumed with the Ottomans and the numerous Catholic princes looking to a decent Catholic German power to rally around to prevent Hasburg encroachment leads to Bavaria becoming the counterweight to the Hasburgs in central Germany.
 
With a POD limit of 1500, you can just remove the Hohenzollerns from ever rising as a power. No need to make a change in 1700.

Alter the Wars of Religion in Germany. A greater portion of Germany ends up Catholic, but a combination of the Hasburgs being too consumed with the Ottomans and the numerous Catholic princes looking to a decent Catholic German power to rally around to prevent Hasburg encroachment leads to Bavaria becoming the counterweight to the Hasburgs in central Germany.

Sounds interesting. The Catholic League should've been called the "Bavarian Club" for all intents and purposes, and the Habsburgs basically had to bribe Maximilian I with a confiscated electorate to side with them in the 30YW IIRC.

I saw a TL on another alt-history site once where Maximilian I marries Anna of Austria (OTL queen of Poland), their son marries Maria Anna of Austria (OTL electress of Bavaria), TTL Ferdinand Maria marries Maria Anna of Austria (OTL queen of Spain), Ferdinand III is killed fighting in the 30YW, we get Emperors Leopold I (Wilhelm), Ferdinand IV and Leopold II (OTL Leopold I), but then Leopold I dies without male issue (ICR how he dies, just that he leaves no children), and the Bavarians get elected as emperor. I thought that it was stretching a bit (I mean that Ferdinand II's kids would be as OTL (let alone Ferdinand III's) with a POD in the 1590s - and that none of Maximilian II's sons would produce issue - was a tad unrealistic, but it was a nice idea)
 
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