AHC: Axis Win WWI BUT Only Due To Italy

With a PoD just after WWI ends (so Italy is still pissed at not gaining anything from WWI) have the Axis win the seocind war with Italy being a major contributor, perhaps on the same level as Germany.
 
With a PoD just after WWI ends (so Italy is still pissed at not gaining anything from WWI) have the Axis win the seocind war with Italy being a major contributor, perhaps on the same level as Germany.
There is no WW2 right after WW1 and it's ASB for them to contribute as much as the Germans.
 

Insider

Banned
the problem is in money, and leadership. The italians are dirt poor and their solders are badly led. The problem is systematic, it cannot be solved easily. I have plans of nonASB scenario where Italy is doing somewhat better financially, and therefore it is more capable of causing trouble to Brits. The first major alteration of history is when with some luck their army escape total destruction during operation Compass, leading to a much hotter and closely tied desert war. With no war with Greece, (which was utterly idiotic), they can concentrate forces on Malta, Egypt and USSR. With no Italo-Greek hostilities Greece is more likely to fall on the Axis side of the conflict, perhaps creating domino effect with Turkey and Spain following it.

But even in my scenario, faith of Axis and Italian Empire is yet unknown. The changes may change the outcome of the war, or just make Italian fate more grimdark.
 
the problem is in money, and leadership. The italians are dirt poor and their solders are badly led. The problem is systematic, it cannot be solved easily. I have plans of nonASB scenario where Italy is doing somewhat better financially, and therefore it is more capable of causing trouble to Brits. The first major alteration of history is when with some luck their army escape total destruction during operation Compass, leading to a much hotter and closely tied desert war. With no war with Greece, (which was utterly idiotic), they can concentrate forces on Malta, Egypt and USSR. With no Italo-Greek hostilities Greece is more likely to fall on the Axis side of the conflict, perhaps creating domino effect with Turkey and Spain following it.

But even in my scenario, faith of Axis and Italian Empire is yet unknown. The changes may change the outcome of the war, or just make Italian fate more grimdark.
1) I wouldn't they they're dirt poor.

2) Sending them to the USSR would be stupid. They should just focus on the Mediterranean.

3) Spain will only join if they're sure of victory. Turkey isn't joining... period.

4) They're still going to lose if the USSR and the US join.

Italy stays neutral in WW2. Without their crushing incompetence, a more reasonable, diplomatic and non-genocidal German government manages to edge out a win.
These jokes are pretty stale. The Italian theatres of the war played a fairly insignificant role in the overall victory or failure of the Axis. Staying out of the war isn't going to give Hitler a win in Russia. It's just going to remove them from the list of people Hitler blames for his failures.
 

Insider

Banned
1) I wouldn't they they're dirt poor.

2) Sending them to the USSR would be stupid. They should just focus on the Mediterranean.

3) Spain will only join if they're sure of victory. Turkey isn't joining... period.

4) They're still going to lose if the USSR and the US join.


These jokes are pretty stale. The Italian theatres of the war played a fairly insignificant role in the overall victory or failure of the Axis. Staying out of the war isn't going to give Hitler a win in Russia. It's just going to remove them from the list of people Hitler blames for his failures.

ad 1. I understand you wanted to say "I wouldn't say they are dirt poor". No they are, their economy is broken by bad monetary policy, attempts on autarky, colonial war in Etiopia, and intervention in Spain. Even well in the war they sold guns to help their ballance.

ad 2. If they won't go they indeed could stay out of this bloddy thing altogether. The whole point of Pact of steel, and later Axis is putting a stop on bolshevik threat. The question is not whatever Italy would send troops to USSR, but how much and armed with what?

ad 3. In my opinion it is rather: Spain would join the Axis are prevailing and if they feel that their action would be decisive. They also do not want to commit themselves fully, siedge of Gibraltar and a Division or two in the East would be enough. Turkey would join if the victory is assured, because... why not join the winning side. They would probably use the same strategy in atacking USSR, as the Italians did OTL in battle of France. "Give me few hundred dead so I would have a place by negotiating table"

ad 4. Probably, yes. I didn't say that I plan that Italy would won.
 
ad 1. I understand you wanted to say "I wouldn't say they are dirt poor". No they are, their economy is broken by bad monetary policy, attempts on autarky, colonial war in Etiopia, and intervention in Spain. Even well in the war they sold guns to help their ballance.

ad 2. If they won't go they indeed could stay out of this bloddy thing altogether. The whole point of Pact of steel, and later Axis is putting a stop on bolshevik threat. The question is not whatever Italy would send troops to USSR, but how much and armed with what?

ad 3. In my opinion it is rather: Spain would join the Axis are prevailing and if they feel that their action would be decisive. They also do not want to commit themselves fully, siedge of Gibraltar and a Division or two in the East would be enough. Turkey would join if the victory is assured, because... why not join the winning side. They would probably use the same strategy in atacking USSR, as the Italians did OTL in battle of France. "Give me few hundred dead so I would have a place by negotiating table"

ad 4. Probably, yes. I didn't say that I plan that Italy would won.
1) Yes. They weren't though. Even when they were blowing money in Spain and Ethiopia, they nver faced a serious decrease. In fact, they grew by 10 billion in 1938.

2) The whole point of the Pact of Steel was to have allies when the general war broke out. They weren't even informed about Barbarossa.

3) Ismet Inonu and most of the leaders had watched Turkey go through 12 years of warring. They were pacifists and wouldn't fight unless they were attacked.
 

Sycamore

Banned
Have an ATL in which the conflict they refer to as 'WW2' was triggered by the 2nd Italo-Ethiopian War, with the Allies of the Stresa Front on one side and the Ethiopians, Japanese and Germans comprising the (anti-colonialist) Axis on the other side. The Axis win, only thanks to the major contribution of Italy('s incompetence); and their contribution is deemed to be on a par with that of Germany (which supplied armaments to the Ethiopians, along with several other anti-colonial independence movements, intimidating the British and the French into abandoning their Italian Allies and withdrawing from the conflict, in order to prevent another theater of the War opening up in Europe and attempt to restore order to their own colonial holdings elsewhere).
 
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