AHC: Axis Government in Exile
- Thread starter Incognito
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The problem is: in exile where to?
Assuming a WWII like OTL, nobody will want them out fear of enraging the Allies.
Maybe Argentina, but why on Earth would the chose such an overt way to piss off the Americans AND the Soviets for no visible gain?
The same applies to every other half-plausible candidate. Except out spite to every single great power on Earth, why would anyone want to do this?
EDIT: DValdron's Axis of Andes has a sort-of Axis-aligned Chile whose Government in Exile is hosted, ironically, in the United States and actually controls the Juan Fernandez and Desventuradas Islands, because of a pretty convoluted end of that country's involvement in the war. I am not sure this counts.
Assuming a WWII like OTL, nobody will want them out fear of enraging the Allies.
Maybe Argentina, but why on Earth would the chose such an overt way to piss off the Americans AND the Soviets for no visible gain?
The same applies to every other half-plausible candidate. Except out spite to every single great power on Earth, why would anyone want to do this?
EDIT: DValdron's Axis of Andes has a sort-of Axis-aligned Chile whose Government in Exile is hosted, ironically, in the United States and actually controls the Juan Fernandez and Desventuradas Islands, because of a pretty convoluted end of that country's involvement in the war. I am not sure this counts.
I could see, if the cold war gets off the ground faster, a rebranded Governments-in-Exile for Hungary and Romania in London or Washington, though unlikely to get any where, and likely to end up like the Polish Government-in-Exile, a forgotten foot note
I could also see, if Puyi got to Japan, and managed to stay out of jail to see the CIA under Allen Dulles trying to stand him up as some kind of counter to Red China, its just the dumb kind of plan they loved in those days
I could also see, if Puyi got to Japan, and managed to stay out of jail to see the CIA under Allen Dulles trying to stand him up as some kind of counter to Red China, its just the dumb kind of plan they loved in those days
You may have a better chance with minor Axis powers, like, the Western Allies chose to host a non-Communist government of say, Finland, Bulgaria, Romania or Hungary (Croatia and Slovakia are less likely) because of some sort of messy surrender thing where said government makes a deal with the Western Allies not wanting to surrender to the Reds, but is overthrown by Communists in the wake of the Red Army coming in.
The situation is meant as temporary but then Cold War emerges and it sticks.
Maybe if the Soviets insist on a Communist Finland (but why would they do so?) given that the Finnish government was sort of democratic and less unpalatable to the West.
They might even manage to keep Aland islands (Sweden would be pissed).
If you want a major Axis power, however, Italy is probably the best bet, a our "Axis" government actually switched sides while in charge. You can have a situation where said government remains the Western Allies buddy while Italy goes Commie. However, again, the islands would probably remain under its jurisdiction, so it would be more a Taiwan situation than a government in exile one.
The situation is meant as temporary but then Cold War emerges and it sticks.
Maybe if the Soviets insist on a Communist Finland (but why would they do so?) given that the Finnish government was sort of democratic and less unpalatable to the West.
They might even manage to keep Aland islands (Sweden would be pissed).
If you want a major Axis power, however, Italy is probably the best bet, a our "Axis" government actually switched sides while in charge. You can have a situation where said government remains the Western Allies buddy while Italy goes Commie. However, again, the islands would probably remain under its jurisdiction, so it would be more a Taiwan situation than a government in exile one.
Can't be done. No, really, it can't. It's one thing to host a number of officials from an Axis nation, as Argentina and Spain had done (and for which they received a lot of flak for and proved extremely detrimental to their global relations/trade/etc.). Its another entirely to host a government in exile. No one, not even Franco or Peron, would be so stupid as to attempt it, and all the economic and political power would be brought to bear so as to force said nation to eject said government in exile. Even Italy would be a major stretch despite the lack of..............."major issues" that Germany and Japan had during that time.
IOTL the Japanese government considered relocating the imperial family to Manchukuo during the summer of 1945.
In which case it's obvious what Stalin would have done to them.
In which case it's obvious what Stalin would have done to them.
I can't imagine a situation where someone would willingly host a Nazi government-in-exile, however.
That would be like putting out a giant "please invade me" sign all over the country.
Maybe Hitler (or whoever) escape and sets out a "government in exile" without the overt consent of any hosting country.
They keep in hiding, but are known to be around (and suspected to be in South America) because anonymous propaganda is circulated under their name. Maybe they can go terrorist. A sort of small "Nazi al-Qa'ida" if you want.
I don't see this lasting for long.
That would be like putting out a giant "please invade me" sign all over the country.
Maybe Hitler (or whoever) escape and sets out a "government in exile" without the overt consent of any hosting country.
They keep in hiding, but are known to be around (and suspected to be in South America) because anonymous propaganda is circulated under their name. Maybe they can go terrorist. A sort of small "Nazi al-Qa'ida" if you want.
I don't see this lasting for long.
Yup.
So the possibilities are:
1) have a Great Power do it (most likely the Western ones, out of anti-Communism; a very small chance for Italy, i'd say zero for Germany and Japan).
2) have the Exiles setting up shop somewhere against the will of the local goverment, possibly in secret.
Agreed. Italy is the only one that could possibly do this, but considering the conditions that even the Italians were forced to meet following the surrender of Germany, I doubt it is possible even with a Communist mainland; a Mafia regime has a stronger possibility then a Fascist one (and no, while they may be both authoritarian, they are quite different, and neither would want anything to do with the other).
That isn't a government in exile though. A government in exile has to be public in some shape or form.
The Vichy French are able to work with the Japanese in Indochina, which remains in Vichy hands throughout the war.
The area remains in Vichy hands for a few years, it doesn't last long.
The area remains in Vichy hands for a few years, it doesn't last long.
Re: Italy. Yeah, very unlikely, but not completely out of the realm of possibility. I don't think that anybody knows how an actual Mafia regime would look like (and most people emphatically won't like to see it outside a rvbomally TL, I suppose), but I'd agree it won't resemble Fascism very much.
Re: government in exile. They might be "public" in publishing written stuff while keeping their actual wherebouts hidden. Not going to last, I suppose (there's some OTL's very vaguely similar case, like some Palestinian groups, but they had somewhat sympathetic governments at least. I doubt that would work for Nazis).
That's a fascinating answer to the question "How could Indochina be made a worse mess than IOTL during the Cold War Era"?
In Argentina and IIRC it transformed itself into a partywhen Croatia became independent in 1991-2
Fascinating. Was it recognized by anybody at all? Did Argentina and Tito's Jugoslavia had diplomatic relationship ? Sounds like a pretty big stumbling block to any sort of constructive interaction.
EDIT: considering that Pavelic guys were the ones who horrified the Nazis for their cruelty...
AFAIK no one recognized it and I dont know what the relations between Yugoslavia and Argentina was but I doubt it was good
The problem is that Chiang Kai-shek is worshipped by American Cold Warriors, and he and his friends in the US are not going to go for that...