AHC: Avert / Curb Defeat in First Opium War

With no PoDs prior to 1833, how can the OTL defeat and humiliation of Qing China in the First Opium War he prevented or, failing that, curbed as much as possible? If, for example, this involves delaying an equivalent conflict,* how can China plausibly come to utilize the extra time as needed? And once we have a plausible scenario, how does this subsequently change Chinese and world history?

*and to be clear, if the conflict between Britain or another European power is delayed, but the Qing are still defeated as badly or worse, that does not meet the OP
 
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With no PoDs prior to 1833, how can the OTL defeat and humiliation of Qing China in the First Opium War he prevented or, failing that, curved as much as possible. If, for example, this involves delaying an equivalent conflict,* how can China plausibly come to utilize the extra time as needed? And once we have a plausible scenario, how does this subsequently change Chinese and world history?

*and to be clear, if the conflict between Britain or another European power is delayed, but the Qing are still defeated as badly or worse, that does not meet the OP

How about China relaxing the restrictions which caused the war? Starting with letting free import of opium. Whatever the negative effects (not sure why the Quing government started excessively caring about this specific item: I was under impression that they tended NOT to care excessively about the well-being of their subjects as long as the taxes could be squeezed), this would allow to avoid a defeat and humiliation, which seems to be the main point of the question. And it would probably minimize the changes comparing to OTL. ;)
 
I was under impression that they tended NOT to care excessively about the well-being of their subjects as long as the taxes could be squeezed
Whaaaaat? Literally the entire justification for any Confucian state existing was to protect the welfare of the population. The Qing saw the epitome of imperial China's social security system.
 
The Qing succeeded in both raising the lowest taxes in Chinese history and preventing large-scale famine in the entire empire for nearly a century through the ever-normal granaries.
To my knowledge,the lowest tax in Chinese history was from the Ming Dynasty—at least till the very end.

As for preventing famine,I believe that American crops played a great role in this.

The best social welfare program took place in the Song Dynasty(there were orphanages,public housing,places to take care of the old and public cemetery for those who couldn’t afford to bury themselves).
 
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To my knowledge,the lowest tax in Chinese history was from the Ming Dynasty—at least till the very end.
The Kangxi era regularly saw years where no taxes were collected at all due to the government not needing the money, and the entire High Qing era saw many years where there were more provinces whose taxes had been remitted than not.

As for preventing famine,I believe that American crops played a great role in this.
The collapse of the ever-normal granary system in the late 18th century coincided with the reemergence of famine after decades where it was unknown in China.

The best social welfare program took place in the Song Dynasty(there were orphanages,public housing,places to take care of the old and public cemetery for those who couldn’t afford to bury themselves).
The Qing had the same systems, while no Song system could compare to the ever-normal granaries.

@Intransigent Southerner Do you have any thoughts on the OP's challenge?
I'd say it's impossible, frankly.
 
Whaaaaat? Literally the entire justification for any Confucian state existing was to protect the welfare of the population. The Qing saw the epitome of imperial China's social security system.

Seems a bit hyperbolic? It's a pretty strong statement to say that all Confucian state say the welfare of the population as a higher good than the authority and welfare of the ruler, the continuity of of the state, tradition and proper social structure.

Hierarchy and hierarchical loyalty is important, and the maintenance of ritual and proper forms is not less important than welfare (this is not Utilitarianism)?

Probably more accurate than complete indifference to welfare though!
 
Whaaaaat? Literally the entire justification for any Confucian state existing was to protect the welfare of the population. The Qing saw the epitome of imperial China's social security system.
Seems a bit hyperbolic? It's a pretty strong statement to say that all Confucian state say the welfare of the population as a higher good than the authority and welfare of the ruler, the continuity of of the state, tradition and proper social structure.

Hierarchy and hierarchical loyalty is important, and the maintenance of ritual and proper forms is not less important than welfare (this is not Utilitarianism)?

Probably more accurate than complete indifference to welfare though!
Unfortunately,that’s an ideal rather than something that’s absolutely observed.Protecting the welfare of the population isn’t really something that most Chinese rulers really care about,including the Qing.It’s more of a luxury rather than something that’s absolutely essential. Most rulers are more than willing to look the other way if they can reap greater benefit.It’s like the ten commandments in the west.Most kings would try to look Christian,but in actuality,few kings really observe the Ten Commandments.
 
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Whaaaaat? Literally the entire justification for any Confucian state existing was to protect the welfare of the population. The Qing saw the epitome of imperial China's social security system.

Confucian theory was a theory and the practice was noticeably different: the lower classes had been severely oppressed by the government which, in theory, should be taking care of them.

If the state was so ideal, why the endless rebellions? White Lotus Rebellion, Jahriyya revolt , Eight Trigrams uprising, Taiping Rebellion, Miao Rebellion, Panthay Rebellion, Dungan Revolt and finally Boxers Rebellion.
 
This is actually not difficult at all. They just have to appease the British long enough to put their house in order. The hard part is recognizing the huge gulf which then existed between the Qing and British way of war.
 
So related question - would it have made a difference if the Canton System was in effect at the time of the California Gold Rush (regardless of whether we’re prolonging the former or accelerating the latter)?
 
This is actually not difficult at all. They just have to appease the British long enough to put their house in order. The hard part is recognizing the huge gulf which then existed between the Qing and British way of war.

I think the bold part is the real difficulty. The Qing were so used to being top dog that I'm not sure anything except a massive defeat would be enough to shake them out of their complacency.
 
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