AHC: Austria-Poland

GdwnsnHo

Banned
I'm not sure you can without having Bohemia or Hungary completely assimilated into them.

You could have a timeline where the Piasts/Přemysl form a single Crown. (Perhaps a war over Silesia that kills the primary heirs of one of the dynasties marries a daughter to the other dynasty, leading to a common king - who may well fuse the crowns.

After those circumstances, as Poland-Bohemia is now bordering Austria, then you can reasonably have Austria and Poland-Bohemia unite via marriage/constitutional union, and form Austria-Poland.
 

Deleted member 1487

I'm not sure you can without having Bohemia or Hungary completely assimilated into them.

You could have a timeline where the Piasts/Přemysl form a single Crown. (Perhaps a war over Silesia that kills the primary heirs of one of the dynasties marries a daughter to the other dynasty, leading to a common king - who may well fuse the crowns.

After those circumstances, as Poland-Bohemia is now bordering Austria, then you can reasonably have Austria and Poland-Bohemia unite via marriage/constitutional union, and form Austria-Poland.
Austria-Poland doesn't preclude Boehmia in Austria like how OTL Austria-Hungary had Bohemia as part of Austria. How about Austria-Bohemia-Poland-Hungary like they wanted during WW1?

Perhaps in lieu of marrying into Spain Austria marries into Poland instead?
 

GdwnsnHo

Banned
Austria-Poland doesn't preclude Boehmia in Austria like how OTL Austria-Hungary had Bohemia as part of Austria. How about Austria-Bohemia-Poland-Hungary like they wanted during WW1?

Perhaps in lieu of marrying into Spain Austria marries into Poland instead?

Oh, I'm aware of that, but I'm not exactly about to write up every possible permutation :p

Also, that state, it is basically Greater Moldova and Poland fused, might as well add Lithuania, and watch Russia and Western Europe quake in terror.
 

Deleted member 1487

Oh, I'm aware of that, but I'm not exactly about to write up every possible permutation :p

Also, that state, it is basically Greater Moldova and Poland fused, might as well add Lithuania, and watch Russia and Western Europe quake in terror.

The Habsburgs with Europe's finest cavalry in the 1600s would dominate. Austria IOTL pretty much had to get involved in Hungary after the Turks moved in, so with Poland as a crownland Hungary would almost have to come with with the Turks showed up, which means the Habsburgs end up with a massive state even without Lithuania. Austria-Hungary-Poland would be a monster, but with a lot of foes to worry about in Russia, the Ottomans, perhaps France from a distance, and probably Prussia at some point, plus Sweden. Lithuania probably doesn't want to mess with the Habsburgs if it does its own thing. Maybe the Hasburgs either use their massive holdings to dominate Germany or just step away from it, effectively acting as a shield to the East and South, leaving the German states to do their own thing and oppose France (or get sucked into French power).

I don't know if anyone wants to make a map of Habsburg run Austria-Poland-Hungary, with Teutonic Prussia split between the Poles and Lithuanians. Actually without Poland would Lithuania be able to prevent the rise of Russia?


1500.jpg

1600.jpg
 
I'd imagine that anything that refocuses the attention of the poles west and seperates them and the lituanians would lead the teutonic knights to more victories against the lithuanians.
 
I'd imagine that anything that refocuses the attention of the poles west and seperates them and the lituanians would lead the teutonic knights to more victories against the lithuanians.

This. The inability of the Knights to defeat the Poles and Lithuanians at Grünwald was their deathknell. It was all downhill from there.

Poland-Lithuania, early on (when it was just a personal union, not a singular entity on its own), was extremely vulnerable. Political stability in both polities wavered any time there was uncertainty in the succession. This was the case no matter who took over the Polish throne IOTL. A lasting Austrian-Polish union, however, may have been even more successful than the Polish-Lithuanian one from OTL, as the Habsburgs had much more to offer in terms of wealth and military power, especially if the union occurs after 1500. This union would have resulted in far less conflict between the Teutonic Order-state and Poland, and could have significant consequences for the Reformation as well.

If you can prevent Poland and Lithuania from joining altogether, however, the Knights very likely enjoy greater success and remain relevant longer, well into the 16th century I bet.

(My current TL features a Teutonic victory at Grünwald that leads to a separation of Poland and Lithuania. Butterflies ensue. If anyone's interested...it was dead for a while but I'm back now.)
 
Maybe if Maximilian II Habsburg succeeds in his attempt to become King of Poland/Grand Duke of Lithuania. Though he'd have to somehow ensure his dynasty stays there, as well...
 
Wasn't Jadwiga of Poland supposed to marry an Austrian prince, before being forcibly married off to Jogaila of Lithuania instead?

Yeah Duke William of Austria he was like 17 I think at the time he went to Poland to consumate the marriage. That's probably the best in at the time for the Habsburgs to gain Poland legitimately without (too much) bloodshed
 
You could achieve this rather easily with a PoD following the Battle of Varna. At this point Poland and Hungary were united under the reign of Władysław III of Poland, and it was his death in this battle that split this union, with Poland eventually electing his Brother Casimir IV, while Hungary elected Ladislaus the Posthumous.

Perhaps instead Poland decides to also embrace the Habsburgs here. Ladislaus was later elected King of Bohemia as well, this would put those 3 Kingdoms and Austria under Habsburg Control. Butterfly away his death at an extremely young age and there you go. A Habsburg Rule East Europe in Record Time.
 

Deleted member 1487

You could achieve this rather easily with a PoD following the Battle of Varna. At this point Poland and Hungary were united under the reign of Władysław III of Poland, and it was his death in this battle that split this union, with Poland eventually electing his Brother Casimir IV, while Hungary elected Ladislaus the Posthumous.

Perhaps instead Poland decides to also embrace the Habsburgs here. Ladislaus was later elected King of Bohemia as well, this would put those 3 Kingdoms and Austria under Habsburg Control. Butterfly away his death at an extremely young age and there you go. A Habsburg Rule East Europe in Record Time.
And Europe trembles. Then the Ottomans get an epic beatdown. Maybe liberation of Constantinople?
 
It would be a little while before that. In 1444 Ladislaus is ... 4 ... himself. Granted this isn't EUIV where Regencies arbitrarily restrict you from declaring war, but it would cause problems.

And also, well, The Turks have already defeated large coalitions composed of Hungary, Bohemia, Poland, and friends. Throwing Austria in there might give them the needed edge, it might also just give the entire mess enough distractions that they can't properly coordinate their resources.
 
Austria-Poland doesn't preclude Boehmia in Austria like how OTL Austria-Hungary had Bohemia as part of Austria. How about Austria-Bohemia-Poland-Hungary like they wanted during WW1?

Perhaps in lieu of marrying into Spain Austria marries into Poland instead?

Your top point is really interesting (the bit about WWI) could you provide a reference/link for I can find out more about it?
 

Deleted member 1487

Your top point is really interesting (the bit about WWI) could you provide a reference/link for I can find out more about it?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Poland_(1916–18)
Austria-Hungary had three different ideas regarding Poland. One, the "Austro-Polish solution", involved the creation of a Polish kingdom under the Emperor of Austria, who, among his other titles, was already King of Galicia and Lodomeria. German and Magyar (Hungarian) elements within the Habsburg monarchy opposed such a move for fear of creating a predominantly Slavic area. Unlike Emperor Francis Joseph, however, Charles I of Austria, who had acceded to the Habsburg thrones in 1916, promoted the idea. The other two ideas involved the division of the former Congress Poland between Prussia and Austro-Hungary, or between Austro-Hungary and a state built from Lithuania, Belarus and the remnants of Congress Poland.[6]
 
Ultra-Saxony: How about Charles VI adheres to the original Habsburg Mutual Succession Pact of 1703? Joseph's daughter, Josepha, marries Frederick Augustus of Saxony. He becomes Elector of Saxony in 1733, King of Poland in 1735 and Holy Roman Emperor as well as co-regent of the Austrian lands in 1740. I know, I know. How many powers would have intervened to stop this?
 
Top