AHC: Austria-Hungary gets through WW1 intact, Germany still loses

Why would they do?
To finish the job maybe? Romania, Serbia, Russia and Italy were interested in quite a few bits of it, where's the motivation for them to follow British and French advice after the Germans have been beaten and pull a Severes on what's left of A-H? The Bohemian industry would be very useful to Russia.
 
Prevent Wilson from going full-blown national self-determination (this is very hard). Maybe having Britain and France carrying the war without US entry. g
No Romanian entry. Even with Italy in the war, A-H can still retain some access to ports.
Russia must not join the victors in the end.
No all-out liberals at Versailles (in fact most of the leaders at Versailles were liberals).

It's not really feasible for the Allies to win without the US and still defeat Germany. Perhaps some kind of exhausted white peace.
 
There are two possibilities:

- the Sixtus affair
- The Caporetto offesive is not success and more or less on the same situation (the great CP success, scared the entire population and politicians and while before the support for the war was lucklustre, after become a matter of national survive and a 'No surrender, no give up' attitude was enstablished)

But in either case, A-H need to give up something to Italy, at least to save face otherwise the goverment will not survive an hour.
 

Redbeard

Banned
Austria pretty much stopped being enemies with the Ottomans by the 1790s. They need to skip through two layers of countries to get at the Ottomans and what makes the effort worth it?

With Russia at least temporarily out of the game I guess A-H could perhaps see an opportunity to gain the upper hand on the Balkans and in this ATL where else should the A-H'ians direct their energy? Of course France and UK will not allow them a total free hand but at least it is against a common enemy - The Ottomans. Short of their old Russian protector some Balkan states might be perceptive to a new bully in the street and if/when the Ottoman Empire collapse there might be some interesting options for intervention. Like on the Greek side or backing whatever the Bulgarians might think of (but probably not at the same time ;)).
 

BigBlueBox

Banned
If Austria-Hungary survives by making a separate peace, what will be the effect on the rest of the Central Powers? Will Bulgaria see the writing on the wall and sue for peace as well? If so, will they be able to keep any of their gains? Will the Ottomans also sue for peace? Once the war is over, will the Germans turn the stab-in-the-back myth onto the Austrians instead of the Jews and socialists?
 

BigBlueBox

Banned
Russia have to fall into chaos like IOTL because Russians wanted AH dissolution.
And I would not worry about "self-determination"-it was only used when suited Allies (vide Czechoslovakia).
If Habsburg Monarchy managed to survive somehow (losing Bosnia, Galizia, Trieste) power vaccum that was result of AH break up is avoided, thus that part of Europe is more stable. It will be interesting if archduke Charles Stephen became king of Poland and Polish-Austro-Hungarian alliance is created. Britain should be happy because such block would not be seen as French vassals.
I think it would be cool if we had this scenario, combined with the "All the Russias" HOI2 mod. In "All the Russias", the Whites and the Reds fight each other to a stalemate, and then Poland intervenes on the White side in exchange for Russia ceding Belarus, Ukraine, and the Baltics to Poland's sphere of influence.
 
To finish the job maybe? Romania, Serbia, Russia and Italy were interested in quite a few bits of it, where's the motivation for them to follow British and French advice after the Germans have been beaten and pull a Severes on what's left of A-H? The Bohemian industry would be very useful to Russia.
Romania, Serbia, Russia and Italy, in this scenario, are pretty much all defeated (except maybe Italy, but they are in a bad spot anyways), so I don't see why they matter. If anything, Karl wanted peace with no territorial acquisitions, so A-H would give up all their gains for peace. This would be a very good deal if the Entente aren't able to reverse things in Italy or the Balkans, and they probably would think that restoring Serbia and Romania's independence would be the best they could get in that situation.

What's keeping then from backstabbing then after the war? Are you not aware of what happened when the Entente tried to intervene in Russia after the war? Everyone is massively exhausted from the war. With the war with Germany over, I can't see how it would be any different iTTL; why would anyone support a continuation of hostilities when Germany, the real threat, has been defeated? If the Reds still win in Russia, then a friendly A-H is a good geopolitical ally against a resurgent Germany that will absolutely despise A-H and Communist Russia. Plus, like @Svetonius21 said, A-H was willing to support either an autonomous Poland or even an independent one under a Habsburg monarch. Pretty good deal for the Entente IMO given the circumstsnces.
 
Romania, Serbia, Russia and Italy, in this scenario, are pretty much all defeated (except maybe Italy, but they are in a bad spot anyways), so I don't see why they matter. If anything, Karl wanted peace with no territorial acquisitions, so A-H would give up all their gains for peace. This would be a very good deal if the Entente aren't able to reverse things in Italy or the Balkans, and they probably would think that restoring Serbia and Romania's independence would be the best they could get in that situation.

What's keeping then from backstabbing then after the war? Are you not aware of what happened when the Entente tried to intervene in Russia after the war? Everyone is massively exhausted from the war. With the war with Germany over, I can't see how it would be any different iTTL; why would anyone support a continuation of hostilities when Germany, the real threat, has been defeated? If the Reds still win in Russia, then a friendly A-H is a good geopolitical ally against a resurgent Germany that will absolutely despise A-H and Communist Russia. Plus, like @Svetonius21 said, A-H was willing to support either an autonomous Poland or even an independent one under a Habsburg monarch. Pretty good deal for the Entente IMO given the circumstsnces.
Romania, Serbia and Russia got beaten IOTL, and then came back to conquer Transylvania, Croatia, Bosnia, Slovenia, Banat and Eastern Galicia anyway. The proposal on page 1 was that A-H gets its army limited to a small number of soldiers where it cant defend itself, that's the whole point of limiting an army. Unlike Russia A-H is very small, intervening there is quite easy.
 
Try to make it so that Austria-Hungary and Germany are on the same side in WW1, but Germany is subjected to a peace at least as harsh as OTL Versailles, while for A-H the Dual Monarchy is preserved, Cisleithanian Austria retains the Southern Sudetenland and access to the Adriatic, and the Kingdom of Hungary's borders are not less than it's OTL borders on May 1, 1941.
Cardona mismanages the army again (probably not to hard) and is unable to establish a stable front on the Piave River (yes, ever incompetent Cardona did indeed make the game saving play in 1917 [after all but losing it]). Italy is basically bodied in such a scenario. Post Brest-Litovsk send out peace feelers again, perhaps partnered with Bulgaria, refrain from insulting Clemeanceau, and there's a reasonable chance for Austria-Hungary to get out of the war intact, especially if its a separate peace.

What other options do the allies have? Continue dying of malaria in Salonica in a pitiful attempt to keep some degree of pressure on the Habsburgs? Hope to defeat Germany then invade Austria from the north?
 

BigBlueBox

Banned
Romania, Serbia and Russia got beaten IOTL, and then came back to conquer Transylvania, Croatia, Bosnia, Slovenia, Banat and Eastern Galicia anyway. The proposal on page 1 was that A-H gets its army limited to a small number of soldiers where it cant defend itself, that's the whole point of limiting an army. Unlike Russia A-H is very small, intervening there is quite easy.
Uh what? When did Russia come back and take East Galicia? Serbia didn't conquer Croatia, Bosnia, and Slovenia, those regions declared independence after Austria-Hungary broke apart and were added to Serbia in the peace treaties. Romania took Transylvania from an unstable, newly independent Hungary, not Austria-Hungary.
 
Romania, Serbia and Russia got beaten IOTL, and then came back to conquer Transylvania, Croatia, Bosnia, Slovenia, Banat and Eastern Galicia anyway. The proposal on page 1 was that A-H gets its army limited to a small number of soldiers where it cant defend itself, that's the whole point of limiting an army. Unlike Russia A-H is very small, intervening there is quite easy.
I wasn't talking about Fehérvári's proposal since I don't think A-H's armies would be limited in this scenario. Plus, it really doesn't matter since A-H could simply mobilise a massive number of veterans if they were invaded. Literally what happened in Hungary in 1919 except A-H wouldn't be a Soviet pariah state. The Entente also really don't have a way to intervene in A-H in a post-war scenario without a friendly Russia. If they try, they have to go through Italy, where A-H has a massive defensive advantage, through the Adriatic, which the KuK Navy controls, which would make any landing impossible, or through Greece or Romania, where, again, terrain is on A-H's side and logistics are a complete nightmare. This is assuming that going through Germany is impossible because the Entente doesn't occupy it as iOTL. If they somehow do, then the problems of logistics are still there, with their supply routes going through unfriendly territory and limited places to attack (basically only thr Danube banks are feasible or you find the Alps or the Sudetes).
 
I think it would be cool if we had this scenario, combined with the "All the Russias" HOI2 mod. In "All the Russias", the Whites and the Reds fight each other to a stalemate, and then Poland intervenes on the White side in exchange for Russia ceding Belarus, Ukraine, and the Baltics to Poland's sphere of influence.
Playing for division of Russia would be wise move for AH and Poland-Poland get OTL eastern border, rest of Ukraine and Southwestern Russia is changed into rump White Russian state that could survive only with Austrian and Polish help.
 
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