AHC: atlatl and flint knapping survive into modern Europe

It doesn't have to be a specific type of wood or anything, does it?

Nope. Different types of wood have been used.

They weren't used as 'tools' per se. Flint/chert was used along with a firesteel to make a sparker (which would be used to light the amadou usually contained in the tinderbox).

Ah, OK.

How do you think the flint was shaped in flintlock rifles?

Same as for the firestarters mentioned above - with steel hammers, using a method which differs quite a bit from what I'm asking about.

Sior, that's rather different - no atlatl is being used.
 
Mass quantities of metal processing is easier to do. They turned to metal for a reason. To make really good flint stuff is tricky and requires alot of training. Metal is much easier to form, you have a massive range of things you can make. Stone is hard to work with.

Indeed. Not saying that metal didn't have massive advantages, just that lithics have advantages too.
 
Alot sharper but much more fragile (and tougher to make in bulk).

This is a key point. Once the technology of smelting and casting is learned, large numbers of virtually identical arrowheads, mace heads, and other weapons or tools can be made from metals, by relatively unskilled people. Flint knapping is much more of an art than a technology, an art that depends on careful selection of raw materials, detailed understanding of how silicified stones like flint and chert fracture, individual skill, and many more man-hours per tool are required.

However, the knowledge of flint knapping did not completely die out (or was rediscovered) and was resurrected for the manufacture of gunflints. Also, because knapping is more an art that requires high skill, I could also see it survive as a means to produce high-status ceremonial weapons or ornaments in early bronze-age cultures - and possibly longer. One has only to see some of the Classic Maya "eccentric" flints to see what a flint knapper can produce.

It is also worth noting that, among the high cultures of Mexico and Central America (which remained at a "stone age" level), the manufacture of chipped stone tools emulated the mass-production techniques of metalurgy: For most utilitarian and military applications, carefully shaped points and spearheads gave way to simple unshaped blades and flakes that could be produced in large numbers by large numbers of tool makers, many of whom could probably not have made a Clovis point if their life dependend on it. The artists among them made high status or ceremonial objects.
 

BlondieBC

Banned
Better stuff? Maybe in most circumstances, but flint is damned sharp, sharper than iron and bronze I've heard. And the atlatl might not have the range of a bow, but it certainly outranges javelins and throwing spears which were oddly popular despite having no advantages over atlatls.

Flint is still used on some medical knives. It is incredibly sharp, but fragile. Iron is more durable. My dad's flint knife will easily cut your finger off, but if hit it against a piece of wood, it is likely to chip.

By the way how difficult is it to make and use Atlatl.


Few hours on use. The was on of the survival shows where they gave modern people high quality atlatl and a half day training. The next day they are killing elk. There accuracy left a lot to be desired, but basically with a few hours training, you can throw it a few hundred yards and would be useful in a ancient battle. Give you a few months, and you would be a master.

Now producing high quality atlatl is a lot more skill. But it is still that way, and was in the ancient time. It is much harder to train a good spear maker than train a spearman. It is easier to train someone to shoot an assault rifle, than to build one.
 

BlondieBC

Banned
I was able to hit the competition targets regularly and with enough force to get some good penetration after hardly any instruction. I still don't throw well enough to even consider hunting or warfare though. :)

Actually you know enough to hunt, provide you know how to stalk. The stalking will be your challenge. Animals run from the sound of gunfire and the sound of a bow string, but will largely ignore an atlatl. When you miss, it just sounds like a very small tree limb falling, not a threatening sound.
 
I have it on good authority that "flint" and "chert" are of disputed definition.

I am well aware of the dispute in the English language, thankfully in Croatian we don't have that problem.


Slowpoke said:
They weren't used as 'tools' per se. Flint/chert was used along with a firesteel to make a sparker (which would be used to light the amadou usually contained in the tinderbox).

I am talking about actual tool use as in scraping tools in leather making.
 
Flint is still used on some medical knives. It is incredibly sharp, but fragile. Iron is more durable. My dad's flint knife will easily cut your finger off, but if hit it against a piece of wood, it is likely to chip.
e.

Obsidian blades are used eg in eye surgery, i know, but ive necer heard of flint being used. Do you have a cite or site i could look at?
 
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