AHC: Armenian and/or Georgian Christianity permanently eclipsed by Islam

raharris1973

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How could it happen that these nationalities become Muslim majority and remain so to this day? Could they remain distinctive ethnolinguistic groups with this happening, or will they become just another type of "Persian" or "Turk"?
 
How could it happen that these nationalities become Muslim majority and remain so to this day? Could they remain distinctive ethnolinguistic groups with this happening, or will they become just another type of "Persian" or "Turk"?

When conquered, their churches are not preserved. I can think of more reasons for Georgians, rather militarily. Since the Middle Ages until the early 19th century they were used as soldiers. Taking Georgia instead of vassalising them would make it more... islamic.
 
I believe a Seljuk victory at the Battle of Didgori (1121) could have increased the fortunes of Islam spreading to Georgia and Armenia.
 
When conquered, their churches are not preserved. I can think of more reasons for Georgians, rather militarily. Since the Middle Ages until the early 19th century they were used as soldiers. Taking Georgia instead of vassalising them would make it more... islamic.
On the other hand the Sultan might want to get religious taxes from them
 
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Georgia is probably much easier, since the Georgian principalities were continuously a vassal of Muslim states ranging from the Ottomans to the Safavids. Some of the rulers even converted to Islam, along with many noblemen.

There would be a strong remnant of Georgian Christianity which would hold out somewhere. For instance, the Svans in the highlands are likely to remain Georgian Orthodox. There will be other Georgian Orthodox ethnic groups around too. Some would be assimilated into a Turkish or Persian identity, but many would remain Georgian, like the Adjarians who are mainly Muslim.
 
Depends from Sultan to Sultan. Some might favor conversion.
That's not always true or practical. While researching conversion rates in Muslim Iberia, I seem to recall glimpsing some scholarship which suggested that conversion to Islam in conquered areas will often be a process of centuries, with Islam usually hovering under or around 25% of the population (mostly the elites and merchants) before there's a large explosion of conversions a couple centuries in to make Islam the majority by 300 or 400 years in. In part that seems to be because Muslim rulers often take a soft approach to proselytization - less convert-or-die, more convert-if-you-want-a-tax-break.

Muslim realms don't often seem to aggressively convert their subjects, it seems. There are exceptions - the Almohads being notable for taking the convert-or-die road with Christians and Jews, mostly because they didn't believe in the concept of dhimmi - but for the most part, mass conversions don't seem to be common.

Mass conversion tends to be hard because you're imposing your will on a large majority population that will fight back, and they'd potentially have allies in the region.
 
How could it happen that these nationalities become Muslim majority and remain so to this day? Could they remain distinctive ethnolinguistic groups with this happening, or will they become just another type of "Persian" or "Turk"?
Georgians wouldn't t call themselves Georgians anymore, I suppose. They would have maybe a similiar culture Like other Muslim Caucasus ethnic groups like Circassians or Azeri.
 

raharris1973

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On the other hand the Sultan might want to get religious taxes from them

Are dhimmi subjects really such a cash cow? I mean, on the one hand, those who convert won't pay dhimmi taxes anymore. On the other hand, as Muslims they obligations to pay tithes or serve the community militarily. Those contributions and and services have a value of their own.

more convert-if-you-want-a-tax-break.

And this looks at it from the converted's point of view, but in converting one exchanges one set of financial obligations for another and are liable for military service.

In any case, I started a thread a long way back asking if Muslim governments made more revenue from dhimmis and if that is something that made them soft-pedal conversion as many people have alleged. Some of the answers said that usually dhimmi taxes were converted into a land tax anyway.
 
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