AHC: Another Major German state

The challenge is to have a 3rd major German state, besides Prussia and Austria, with a POD before 1870.

Some ideas:
Bavaria
A more federated German Confederation?
 
I would say that a principality of the Rhineland could have the potential to be a third place German state, it's got an amazing industrial potential that would be hard to reckon with.
 
Bavaria would work. A more German majority pre-Napoleon POD Swiss state might be possible. With the right manipulations, the Netherlands could fill the role. Hannover as an extension of the United Kingdom could be possible, though that one is less likely.

Historically, the Wittelsbach (Prussia) and Habsburg (Austria) rivalry also extended to a third family, the Luxemburgs. If they keep Bohemia and maybe Hungary they could have some clout, or if they inherit into a few of the smaller states in the Rhineland and low countries they might be respectable.
 
Prussia loses the war of 1866 decisively and has to cede territory to Hanover (the Rhine Province and Westphalia), Saxony and the Grand Duchy of Slesvig-Holstein, more or less being cut back to the borders of the treaty of Tilsit (with the exception of Posen). Hanover would thus become the 3rd major state in a recreated German Confederation.
 
Bavaria would work. A more German majority pre-Napoleon POD Swiss state might be possible. With the right manipulations, the Netherlands could fill the role. Hannover as an extension of the United Kingdom could be possible, though that one is less likely.

Historically, the Wittelsbach (Prussia) and Habsburg (Austria) rivalry also extended to a third family, the Luxemburgs. If they keep Bohemia and maybe Hungary they could have some clout, or if they inherit into a few of the smaller states in the Rhineland and low countries they might be respectable.

You mean Hohenzollern. The Wittelbachs are Bavaria
 
You mean Hohenzollern. The Wittelbachs are Bavaria
In the time frame Lascupa0788 seems to refer to (the 14th and early 15th centuries), the Wittelsbachs and Luxembourgs intermittently ruled the Margraviate Brandenburg. The Hohenzollerns became the ruling family in Brandenburg in 1415.
 
Have the Wittelsbachs turn against Napoleon quickly enough to recover most of their non-Bavarian lands at the Congress of Vienna -- as well as to keep all of the Napoleonic-era gains that they did IOTL -- and get some extra lands added as well. A "Big Bavaria" that also includes not only the Palatinate, and Julich & Berg, but also Cologne (both the Electorate [including Westphalia?] & the Free City, added to link those other territories) as well would potentially be quite influential.
 
They hardly could do it earlier. Until autumn 1813, Napoleonic France controlled Germany and had many troops stationed in Germany that secured this control.

Bavaria made defection only when it was forced to do so because the balance of powers in Germany had radically changed : the coalition armies advanced into Germany with a huge numerical superiority.

But if you have Napoleon in some ways be more succesful (crushing victories at Lutzen and Bautzen) and make more realistic decisions, you can have a peace settlement where some kind of kingdom of quite big-seized german confederacy remains on the right bank of the Rhine.
 
A surviving Westphalia?

A Congress of Vienna that united the smaller states into a larger Kingdom of Hesse?

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
France intervenes in the 1866 war - overruns the Prussian Rhine Provinces and insists on their cession to Bavaria, which then becomes a major German power comparable to Russia and Austria Nappy III hopes this three-cornered division will stop Germany uniting. Whether it will is another matter.
 
Early PoDs during the Middle Ages are ridiculously easy.

In the early modern times, up to c.1740, Saxony was seen as one of the top dogs, and it is surprising how little love it gets. Of course, having it (or Saxony-Poland) strong w/o breaking Brandunburg-Prussia first is not simple.

In the Southwest, Baden and Württemberg are simply too small. Especially pre 1803.

Hesse in all its history before 1803 was handicapped by the local rivalry with the archbishops of Mainz. As the latter were the most important in the HRE, it is difficult to do somehing here. Dynastically uniting the Hesses afterward is surprisingly complicated and still will not result in much.

The Guelphs? One early shot would be the mid-14th century, when stopping the scond partion and perhaps gaining the electoral title from Ascanian Saxony (ie long before Wettins in Meißen got it) is a possibility.

The Burgundian inheritance going to someone else but France or Austria in 1477 and becoming an important Rhenish power is rather easy. Especially if you combine it with the United Duchies of Cleve-Jülich-Berg-Mark-Ravensberg-Ravenstein(-Geldern-Zutphen) have them acquire the Archbishopric of Köln and keep that electoral title during the slightly different Reformation.
 
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