AHC: Anglo-Saxon England does not convert

What is the best, most plausible POD after the death of Emperor Theodosius for Anglo-Saxon England to not convert to Christianity and retain their traditional form of spirituality?
 
You'd have to somehow make Gaul pagan, which is...very difficult, and way beyond my ability.

As long as a powerful Christian state is right across the Channel, one of the southern Anglo-Saxon kingdoms is eventually going to make alliances with it and welcome missionaries, and once that happens it will eventually spread to the rest of them.

Also remember that unless you butterfly St. Patrick you'll still have Christians in Ireland, and Wales will have some Christian presence regardless.

On the other hand, Theodosius is before the Anglo-Saxons even settled in England on a large scale, so if you keep them in their homelands they might last longer. But I'm not sure that's what you're asking for.
 
You'd have to somehow make Gaul pagan, which is...very difficult, and way beyond my ability.

As long as a powerful Christian state is right across the Channel, one of the southern Anglo-Saxon kingdoms is eventually going to make alliances with it and welcome missionaries, and once that happens it will eventually spread to the rest of them.

Also remember that unless you butterfly St. Patrick you'll still have Christians in Ireland, and Wales will have some Christian presence regardless.

On the other hand, Theodosius is before the Anglo-Saxons even settled in England on a large scale, so if you keep them in their homelands they might last longer. But I'm not sure that's what you're asking for.

There were a lot of Christians in Ireland before st Patrick.
It is thought they came form trade route with north Africa.
 
the conversion of the angelcynn was an obsession with pope gregory.non angli sed angeli -nots angles but angels)so to have even the slightest chance of keeping the angelcynn following their ancestral faith would require another man becoming pope which in turn creates a major set of butterfly effects.it would be possible to delay it for at least another couple of generations.an example would be to have penda of mercia defeat oswald of bernicia at the battle of heavenfielf (635 a.d).the best you can ultimately hope for though is for the church to incorparate even more of the traditional heathen beleifs practices and festivals then they did in OTL.
 
the conversion of the angelcynn was an obsession with pope gregory.non angli sed angeli -nots angles but angels)so to have even the slightest chance of keeping the angelcynn following their ancestral faith would require another man becoming pope which in turn creates a major set of butterfly effects.it would be possible to delay it for at least another couple of generations.an example would be to have penda of mercia defeat oswald of bernicia at the battle of heavenfielf (635 a.d).the best you can ultimately hope for though is for the church to incorparate even more of the traditional heathen beleifs practices and festivals then they did in OTL.

Penda of Mercia wasn't involved in the Battle of Heavenfield; that was a battle between Oswald of Northumbria and Cadwallon of Gwynned, both of whom were Christian. And obviously, Christianity was well-rooted by that point, with a number of Christian kings already established, including Penda's own son. Which is another issue; Christian rulers attempted to convert their pagan subjects to Christianity much more heavily than Anglo-Saxon pagan rulers tried to convert their Christian subjects to paganism.

But even if you kill Pope Gregory, Christianity is already spreading to England. In addition to the Celtic Christians, there are already close trading ties with France. One of the reasons Pope Gregory's mission went to Kent initially, was because the wife of the King of Kent was already Christian, being a Frankish princess. Marriage alliances were an important part of the conversion process, as the agreements generally included that a Christian princess marrying a pagan ruler keep her faith and bring a chaplain with her. Depending on the situation, the pagan bridegroom might have to convert as well, in which case it's in his own best interest to promote the new faith within his domains.
 
What is the best, most plausible POD after the death of Emperor Theodosius for Anglo-Saxon England to not convert to Christianity and retain their traditional form of spirituality?

No chance.
After Theodosius, the christianisation of Romania is a certain thing. Roman elites, roman nobility was christian.
OTL Anglo-Saxons keep paganism as their religion mostly because they were fighting these elites but ruling on britton-romans lands made them eventually mix with these (as every germanic people settling romania) and adopting Christianism as it was

- Prestigious.
- Allowed the mix between germanic and roman nobility
- Mandatory is you wanted to be recognized and having diplomatic ties with other germano-roman kingdoms.
 
You'd have to somehow make Gaul pagan, which is...very difficult, and way beyond my ability.
After Theodosius' death? Not a chance as well.

While a part of the population maintained paganism (and frankly, it was more often a popular syncretism between local paganism and Christianism than "regular" paganism since V century) Roman elites (as the Bishops that were the urban elite) were Christians.
 
Christianity was good for the rulers, as it emphasised importantance of obaying the king (plus the king had major influance in appointing senior church prelates) so it was win win for the king.

The pagan church would need to offer something similar to have any chance.
 
Penda of Mercia wasn't involved in the Battle of Heavenfield; that was a battle between Oswald of Northumbria and Cadwallon of Gwynned, both of whom were Christian. And obviously, Christianity was well-rooted by that point, with a number of Christian kings already established, including Penda's own son. Which is another issue; Christian rulers attempted to convert their pagan subjects to Christianity much more heavily than Anglo-Saxon pagan rulers tried to convert their Christian subjects to paganism.

But even if you kill Pope Gregory, Christianity is already spreading to England. In addition to the Celtic Christians, there are already close trading ties with France. One of the reasons Pope Gregory's mission went to Kent initially, was because the wife of the King of Kent was already Christian, being a Frankish princess. Marriage alliances were an important part of the conversion process, as the agreements generally included that a Christian princess marrying a pagan ruler keep her faith and bring a chaplain with her. Depending on the situation, the pagan bridegroom might have to convert as well, in which case it's in his own best interest to promote the new faith within his domains.
cadwallon of gwynedd was allied with penda of mercia at the time of the battle of heavenfeild.now as for norhumbria itself was made up of two sub kingdoms bernicia and deira oswald reunified northumbria after he defeated the mercian welsh alliance.and your correct christianity allready had a foothold in the english hepartachy.although none of the heathen kings converted untill after the arrival of the gregorian mission led by augustine(of canterbury).and i note that peada introduced christianity in653 a.d when augustines mission to king ethelbert of kent arrived in 597 a.d and ethelbert did not convert to christianity because of his frankish wife after all the franks and other christian lands still traded with heathen england because trade is trade(the same as christian kingdoms traded with the muslem caliphates even when they were at war with each other).the main reason various english kings converted was that the white christ was seen as a powerfull god but just because they had converted did not allways mean they had forsaken the old gods.we know king redwald of east anglia at least initially worshiped both the christian and the heathen gods.and the conversion of england was not allways clear cut because ethelbert(the first christian king)was sucseeded by his heathen son eadbald who drove the gregorian mission out of kent and returned the kingdom to heathenry.so while the eventual conversion of the english was probably inevitable in the long run its by no means a forgone conclusion that it would have happened at the same time or in the same way as otl.
http://www.britannia.com/history/docs/bedeconv.html
http://omacl.org/Anglo/part1.html
 
Top