AHC and WI: Western Allies Take Berlin

With no PoDs prior to Jan 1945, first, what can convince Eisenhower not to scrap the original plan of marching onto Berlin, and second, how can the Allied forces reach Berlin before the Soviets (or, at the least, reach the outskirts of the city around the same time as the Soviets)?

What happens then? Is Hitler or Goebbels being take alive now within the realm of plausibility? How does this affect post-war Europe? And the outbreak of the Cold War (assuming it still even happens)? And what other butterflies are in the running?

EDIT ADD: OK, you can have PoDs as far back as mid-December 1944, but no earlier.
 
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With no PoDs prior to Jan 1945, first, what can convince Eisenhower not to scrap the original plan of marching onto Berlin, and second, how can the Allied forces reach Berlin before the Soviets (or, at the least, reach the outskirts of the city around the same time as the Soviets)?

Give Old Blood and Guts his 500,000 gallons of gas? :p
 
A slightly earlier death of Roosevelt and Truman taking less notice of the Sovietophiles among his advisors might at least allow the option of charging for Berlin. Not sure how that'd play at Yalta.

A swifter more effective crushing of the Bulge might help here too, putting western forces over the Rhine a little earlier.
 
One of the various plans to assassinate Hitler succeeds and someone whacks the plotters around the head with a clue-by-four to make them realise that unconditional surrender is the only option. To get around the no seperate peace agreement the Germans continue to fight in the east against the Soviets to buy time whilst allowing their armies in the west to individually surrender in the field so that the Western Allies can advance into Germany at best possible speed. Shame they were never able to get him and that their demands were too foolish even if they had.
 
A slightly earlier death of Roosevelt and Truman taking less notice of the Sovietophiles among his advisors might at least allow the option of charging for Berlin. Not sure how that'd play at Yalta.
Kill FDR.

I'm more partial to seeing if there's a way for Yalta to go roughly as OTL, but Eisenhower to disregard the promise of Berlin -- after all, the conference ended February 11, and Ike was still looking to take the city in late March...
 
Well post Yalta Berlin was going to be Soviet territory regardless. And who wants to die for something you're going to have to hand over anyway. There was already a distinct lack of motivation in some units with no-one wanting to be the last guy killed in the war.

A better target in my opinion would have been Prague which could certainly have been taken ahead of the Soviets.
 
One of the various plans to assassinate Hitler succeeds and someone whacks the plotters around the head with a clue-by-four to make them realise that unconditional surrender is the only option. To get around the no seperate peace agreement the Germans continue to fight in the east against the Soviets to buy time whilst allowing their armies in the west to individually surrender in the field so that the Western Allies can advance into Germany at best possible speed. Shame they were never able to get him and that their demands were too foolish even if they had.


This + Operation Eclipse
 
Well post Yalta Berlin was going to be Soviet territory regardless. And who wants to die for something you're going to have to hand over anyway. There was already a distinct lack of motivation in some units with no-one wanting to be the last guy killed in the war.

So what was Ike's going assumption in the two months following the conference? I just assumed it was that whatever the Allies has taken militarily wouldn't be handed over for the Soviet Union to occupy, and vice-versa.

Now that I write that, I have an idea: Say either FDR dies a few days (or weeks) earlier, or that Ike holds off on Bradley's advice a little longer, or something else happens entirely -- point is, Eisenhower consults the newly inaugurated Truman by phone over the question of whether the President would make it policy that the ABC forces would hold Berlin if they should take it militarily. Truman, not having yet been thoroughly briefed on Yalta, says yes, and Race to Berlin continues.

Thoughts?
 
Well post Yalta Berlin was going to be Soviet territory regardless. And who wants to die for something you're going to have to hand over anyway. There was already a distinct lack of motivation in some units with no-one wanting to be the last guy killed in the war.
Technically Berlin would be split.

But you got a point. For the most part from the view of many of the leaders of Western Allies occupying more of Germany was a BAD thing. They wernt preparing for a Cold War at this point (well, Stalin and Churchill were). It wasnt a game of seeing who could get the most territory. Occupation was a burden that came with responsibility. A necessary burdan, but a huge pain in the ass still.

According to contemporary thinking, the Soviets by occupying a chunk of Germany were doing a favor for the allies.

So yes, the territorial agreements at Yalta would hold, and the Battle of Berlin would just be a oft cited tool of nationalist dick waving during and post Cold War.
 
The Germans call off the Battle of the Bulge and instead use the manpower and armor in the East to try to defend against the Soviets. Probably would delay them enough that the Western Allies get Berlin.
 
The Germans call off the Battle of the Bulge and instead use the manpower and armor in the East to try to defend against the Soviets.

Does the Bulge really need to be called off completely? Could the battle have gone any better for the Allies once it was underway?

You know what, in light of difficulties, I'm going to alter the OP to allow for PoDs as far back as December 1944, so long as it doesn't involve the Nazis radically altering their strategy to just pave the way for their Western invaders.
 
As I understand it the carve up of Europe happened between Churchill and Stalin in the fall of 1944

Ah, the "naughty memo". And they both pretty much stuck to it too...

The Germans call off the Battle of the Bulge and instead use the manpower and armor in the East to try to defend against the Soviets. Probably would delay them enough that the Western Allies get Berlin.

OP's POD said nothing before 1/1/45 though, which rules that out.
 
Oh, in light of the change of POD, I'm going to say that the following changes will help.

1: Monty remembers that Antwerp is useless as a port without the approaches being cleared. This will help the supply situation immensly.

2: No Battle of the Bulge, forces allocated instead to the Eastern Front.

3: FDR dies a couple of months early and Truman is less influenced by his Sovietophiles.

4: Allied advances into western Germany and a slower Red Army advance make it a coin toss who will get to Berlin earlier. As a result, there is no agreement on the division of Germany at Yalta.

That's a fair few changes, some of which I'd guess would be highly unlikely, others less so.
 
1: Monty remembers that Antwerp is useless as a port without the approaches being cleared. This will help the supply situation immensly.

2: No Battle of the Bulge, forces allocated instead to the Eastern Front.

3: FDR dies a couple of months early and Truman is less influenced by his Sovietophiles.

4: Allied advances into western Germany and a slower Red Army advance make it a coin toss who will get to Berlin earlier. As a result, there is no agreement on the division of Germany at Yalta.

[2] is still forbidden, as the Nazis began the offensive on December 16, and had been planning it since at least September.

Now that I really think it over, I'm OK with [3] -- the image of FDR still getting on a ship to Yalta on January 23, but dying before his arrival February 2 lends itself to some interesting narrative devices -- but only if it's the PoD. Meaning TTL is stuck with the Battle of the Bulge playing out as OTL.
 
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Well, Eisenhower did change the course of his armies from Central Germany to Southern Germany to fight the National Redoubt, arguably the most effective propaganda campaign later in the war for Goebbels. After Eisenhower announced that the Americans won't be going for Berlin but for Southern Germany, Stalin (Believing it to be a lie of course) rushed towards Berlin.

So, I think if we get Eisenhower not to say that he is going towards Southern Germany, but instead stays silent or even says Berlin is the objective, Goebbels' propaganda campaign fails, and with the Western Allies rushing towards Berlin faster, I imagine that the Soviets and Western Allies might meet in Berlin, and besiege the city together.

Of course, this is a Post 1/1/1945 POD.

If Hitler, or someone convinces Hitler to counterattack the Soviets on the Eastern Front rather than through the Battle of the Bulge towards the Western Allies, we might see Soviet strength growing less even faster. Remember, by the end of the war the Soviets were scraping the manpower barrel, and if the Allies aren't hindered by the Battle of the Bulge, a more weakened Soviet and stronger Western Allied army might be able to see the front lines move to the Oder River.

So, I can see that if it is a Post 1/1/1945 situation where Ike changes the course of the Army, we will probably see the Soviets and Allies meet in Berlin rather than on the Elbe. If the Battle of the Bulge doesn't happen and the Germans launch a counter-offensive on the Eastern Front instead, then we might even see the Western Allies reach the Oder River.
 
Well, Eisenhower did change the course of his armies from Central Germany to Southern Germany to fight the National Redoubt, arguably the most effective propaganda campaign later in the war for Goebbels. After Eisenhower announced that the Americans won't be going for Berlin but for Southern Germany, Stalin (Believing it to be a lie of course) rushed towards Berlin.

So, I think if we get Eisenhower not to say that he is going towards Southern Germany, but instead stays silent or even says Berlin is the objective, Goebbels' propaganda campaign fails, and with the Western Allies rushing towards Berlin faster, I imagine that the Soviets and Western Allies might meet in Berlin, and besiege the city together...

So, I can see that if it is a Post 1/1/1945 situation where Ike changes the course of the Army, we will probably see the Soviets and Allies meet in Berlin rather than on the Elbe.

Did not know about this. Interesting...

If the Battle of the Bulge doesn't happen and the Germans launch a counter-offensive on the Eastern Front instead, then we might even see the Western Allies reach the Oder River.

JTBC, not even the modified OP allows for PoDs prior to December 16, 1944.
 
I'd say the question at this point is: Which PoD is better for achieving the OP, one where the Allies do better at the Bulge, but Yalta still happens as OTL, or one where the Bulge happens as OTL, but FDR dies before he reaches Yalta?

I'm actually preferring the Yalta PoD, assuming it works, just because it has simplicity going for it...
 
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