AHC and WI: Different Second World War

Here is a very interesting (I think) idea for an alternate World War Two.
Your challenge is to think about causes and reasons to make the below possible, and to think about what would happen next. Here you go:

- Later or earlier start of the war.
- No Operation Barbarossa and Russia and Germany remaining alligned.
- No US intervention (no Pearl Harbor; the Japanese don't touch American territory).
- Alternate location of D-Day: coast of Denmark and the Schelde river, simultaneously.
- Japan attacking Australia.
- Britain being able to succeed at D-Day.
- Different end of the war: Germany retaining more territory, less of a complete Allied victory, though not an Axis victory either.
- The end of the war resulting in a hot war with Russia (this one is least necessary).
 
And what I'd also like, if possible, is a delayed invasion of France, maybe. Or at least less of France is annexed by Germany; more succesful resistance against German forces.

EDIT - And a different history after the war... What about different future of the British dominions? What about India?
 
And what about an actual Operation Tannenbaum?
And Operation Green (without Operation [name that I shouldn't write down], please)?
And is a failed German invasion of Norway possible?

PS And what could be a good POD?
EDIT - The POD can be earlier in the Interwar period. For instance the Spanish Civil War, as an example.
 
Last edited:
As a starter for ten get rid of the Maginot Line and the French Defensive mindset. Let them spend the money on tank development or making better yet making the rest of the army more mobile, maybe develop troop carrying vehicles that can run alongside the tanks. Then when the Germans invade Poland instead of the French and British being unable to assist the Poles they can invade Germany ...
 
As a starter for ten get rid of the Maginot Line and the French Defensive mindset. Let them spend the money on tank development or making better yet making the rest of the army more mobile, maybe develop troop carrying vehicles that can run alongside the tanks. Then when the Germans invade Poland instead of the French and British being unable to assist the Poles they can invade Germany ...

But wouldn't the war be over too soon, then? Especially, when considering the following:
...
- Alternate location of D-Day: coast of Denmark and the Schelde river, simultaneously.
...
- Britain being able to succeed at D-Day.
- Different end of the war: Germany retaining more territory, less of a complete Allied victory, though not an Axis victory either.
...
 
Just an idea that popped up in my mind: what would be the consequences of a German invasion of Malta during the war, before TTL's D-Day?
 
I read the following about the location of Operation Overlord, so D-Day. Does anyone have an idea as for how to change circumstances that other locations would be possible (not necessarily Denmark and the Schelde)?

Having established the conditions essential to an assault area for a major invasion, Generals Sinclair and Barker then proceeded to examine various coastal sectors, matching each with the ideal. None fitted. Only one came close--the sector around Caen. The Netherlands was ruled out because it was out of the range of fighter cover, because its beaches were too exposed and, being backed by sand dunes, had inadequate exits for vehicular traffic. Finally the Germans could too easily defend them by flooding. A scarcity of beaches--and those small and exposed--disqualified Belgium unless enemy resistance was comparatively light and good weather could be counted on for at least

a week to allow capture of the group of ports from Dunkerque to Zeebrugge. Actually German defenses of the sector were very strong, and therefore the feasibility of invading it would depend on a substantial lowering of enemy morale. The Pas-de-Calais coast, which ROUNDUP planners had regarded as the most likely assault area, was rejected for a major operation because the beaches were exposed, strongly defended, and dominated by high ground on which the enemy had emplaced artillery. The larger beaches had few exits, and the ports in the area had insufficient capacity to maintain a large force. Inadequate beaches ruled out the Seine sector as well, except as an area for subsidiary assault. It was noted that in order to use the ports of Le Havre and Rouen both banks of the Seine would have to be cleared. On the other hand, simultaneous attacks on both sides of the Seine could not be mutually supporting and would therefore be subject to defeat in detail. The Seine sector could be attacked with a reasonable chance of success only after a main assault in the Caen area. Brittany failed to meet any of the major requirements except as to port capacity. It was above all too far from Germany and a lodgment there would result in long lines of communication in the advance east.
The process of elimination left only the Caen sectors and the Cotentin Peninsula. Caen was desirable from every standpoint except the lack of adequate ports. It was therefore suggested that Caen be made the area of main attack with a subsidiary attack on the east coast of the Cotentin to insure the early capture of Cherbourg. Even Cherbourg, however, could not supply a large invasion force, and it was therefore deemed necessary to seize the Seine ports or the Breton group in addition. Decision on which group to secure would depend on the final objectives of the operation and the degree of enemy opposition expected. There were objections to both. To take the Seine ports would necessitate crossing the river. Dependence on the Brittany ports, as already noted, would mean long lines of communications. This risk, planners thought, would be acceptable only if it were considered "essential to build up a large force west of and protected by the River Seine."

http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USA/USA-E-XChannel/USA-E-XChannel-2.html
 

Robert

Banned
Chamberlain stands up to Hitler in Munich, and Czechoslovakia remains intact. The Nazis don't get the Czech tanks to arm their panzer divisions, nor the flanking position against Poland. Hitler retains power after an attempted military coup and purges many Generals.

Hitler cynically moderates his racism in order to draw Stalin into a closer orbit, and use Soviet troops on the Western front. Stalin sees this as an oppertunity to spread communism, so he sends the troop.

Poland falls to a combined German-Soviet attack. France falls due to a communist uprising, but De Gaulle managers to retain the fleet and the overseas colonies to continue the fight. Italy remains neutral due to anti-communist attitude and feeling of betrayal by Hitler.

Britain and France fight along side Finland after invading Norway. The expedition manages to survive due to the agressive action of the French and British fleet.

Japan joins the allies by invading pro-Axis French Indo-China and the Dutch East Indies. U.S. stays neutral until F.D.R. retires and President Henry Wallace brings America into war against the imperialist colonial forces of Britain and the French colonies. U.S. forces attack with Japan Vladivostok, French North Africa, and Northern Ireland.
 
The US becoming involved in the Pacific War was more or less inevitable. Contrary to popular belief, isolationism was only directed towards European affairs; there were no such qualms involved in protecting US and US-aligned interests in the Pacific against Japan. This is especially true when various groups, mostly notably the China Lobby, had turned public opinion firmly against Japan. An attack on Indonesia and Malaysia would lead to a US declaration of war on Japan. Japan's leadership to a degree understood this, which is why it decided to strike first.

Britain succeeding with D-Day on it's own is impossible short of the use of anthrax and chemical weapons to destroy Germany.

A German-Soviet War was also inevitable. Stalin expected Hitler to invade in 1942, and was looking to expand his interests in the Balkans at the expense of Germany. Thus relations will rapidly deteriorate, not strengthen, unless Nazi Germany wishes to compromise it's position in the East. War will come by 1943 at the latest. The Molotov Ribbentrop Pact was a politically convenient agreement which both parties recognized would be discarded as soon as it no longer became necessary.
 
Top