AHC: An empire creates a puppet state, and then is conquered by its own puppet state

Deleted member 97083

Would it be possible for an empire to be conquered from within by its own puppet state? As a further challenge, have the empire remain in one piece before and after the internal revolution.
 
Doesn't Poland and Prussia almost count?

I mean, Prussia had long since stopped being a vassal when it carved up Poland, but still...
 

Skallagrim

Banned
Macedon had long stopped being a Persian vassal when Alexander went on his all-you-can-conquer Persian buffet, but maybe it counts?

Historically, I think the case of the Medes being conquered by their Parthian vassals qualifies.
 
When the State of Wu subjugated the State of Yue in China,the King of Wu made the King of Yue his slave while retaining the King of Yue as the king of his state.The King of Yue feigned subordination including doing things like eating faeces when the King of Wu ordered him to do so.After a while,the King of Wu became convinced that the King of Yue is obedient and sent him back to rule Yue as a vassal king.The King of Yue reformed his state and prepared for war,eventually launching a successful attack which conquered the state of Wu.
 
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Well, if the US swallowed the UK, would that count?

Certainly, if Brazil hadn't declared independence from Portugal, it would be, by far, the dominant portion of the country.

Not quite what you're asking, ....
 
Would the Grand Duchy of Muscovy count doubly, with its parent, the Grand Duchy of Vladimir, and its Golden Horde overlords (Mongols did essentially create it by destroying much of the developed regions of the Kievan Rus, leading a backwoods trading outpost to become the most significant city of the old Rus)?
 
While never exactly a puppet state, the Golconda Sultanate owed the safe harbor and crowning of the father of its greatest Sultan to the Vijaynagar Empire. Not to mention his unintentional cultural fostering in Vijayanagara helped develop his dynasty from being seen as foreigners to fellow countrymen.

And yet in 1565 at Talikota, guess what happened?
 
Rome gave a bunch of Germanic groups land, and some of these groups later turned on Rome and helped bring about the end of the Western Empire. For example, Alaric and the Goths were given control of the military and political offices in Illyria in the late 390s, but later came into conflict with the Western Emperor and sacked Rome. The Ostrogoths who deposed Romulus Augustus were previously Roman allies.
 

Deleted member 97083

In a Napoleonic Victory scenario, could an expanding Confederation of the Rhine, and significant reliance on the recruitment of German soldiers by the French, eventually backfire (in the 1830s/40s/50s)? Could the German nationalism of the Confederation of the Rhine succeed "too much" and cause this puppet state to rise against the French Empire?
 
When communication didn't go much faster than a man could walk, it was pretty common for a vassal to gradually become independent, and then become more powerful than the master.
 
Would the Grand Duchy of Muscovy count doubly, with its parent, the Grand Duchy of Vladimir, and its Golden Horde overlords (Mongols did essentially create it by destroying much of the developed regions of the Kievan Rus, leading a backwoods trading outpost to become the most significant city of the old Rus)?

Yes and no, under both the Kievan Rus and Golden Horde, the principalities had a fair deal of autonomy and the Golden Horde had little in the way of authority for most of history, so how much of puppet state it was, really varied.

A lot of Sengoku clans can get in on this. For example, the Uesugi were gradually eclipsed by the Nagao family that eventually the most famous Uesugi we know of Kenshin was originally a member of the Nagao and adopted as heir by the exile Kanto Chancellor for support. The Oda of Owari managed to defeat their former lieges the Shiba, the Miyoshi did the same to the Hosokawa, the Mori to the Ouchi, and the Matsudaira/Tokugawa to the Imagawa, etc. This was all apart of the phenomenon of Gekokujo or lower replacing the higher.
 
In a Napoleonic Victory scenario, could an expanding Confederation of the Rhine, and significant reliance on the recruitment of German soldiers by the French, eventually backfire (in the 1830s/40s/50s)? Could the German nationalism of the Confederation of the Rhine succeed "too much" and cause this puppet state to rise against the French Empire?

From a certain point of view, it did.
 
Rome gave a bunch of Germanic groups land, and some of these groups later turned on Rome and helped bring about the end of the Western Empire. For example, Alaric and the Goths were given control of the military and political offices in Illyria in the late 390s, but later came into conflict with the Western Emperor and sacked Rome. The Ostrogoths who deposed Romulus Augustus were previously Roman allies.

Thats closer to being overthrown by your mercenaries, which happened plenty of times. Plus, the empire lasted for another millennium... amusingly enough, ended by the descendants of Turkish mercenaries, employed by their main enemies, Arabs and Persians. There's something poetic in that.
 
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