AHC: An Egypt from Cairo to the Cape

Aren't northern Sudanese mostly Arab-speaking, if racially varied?

I think so - a "pan-Arab" ideology could also work to unite Egypt and northern Sudan as long as being Arab is defined by language.

If I remember right, Egypt in OTL actually occupied much of the Sudan before it (Egypt) fell under Britain's thumb. For a while, I think, the Sudan was jointly administered by Egypt and Britain. If Egypt could remain fully independent rather than becoming a protectorate, it could have retained the Sudan and maybe expanded even further south and grabbed more territory before Europeans could get there. One big problem Egypt might have had is that without being a British protectorate, they would have been on their own in dealing with the Mahdi's revolt and establishment of a state in the Sudan - assuming the Mahdi wasn't butterflied away by earlier changes.
 
British ruled the place until the 1950s and never made it a major agricultural exporter, as far as I know, and the production of money-making primary goods - sugar, coffee, rubber, etc. - was what they were after in Africa. I'm not saying that the Egyptians couldn't do better, but there clearly were issues.

Maybe this Meiji Egypt decides to treat South Sudan the way the US treated the Great Plains: maybe a parallel to the Manifest Destiny develops where Egypt believes it must control the entire Nile Valley to justify expanding south, or something.
 
WHOA WHOA WHOA!!!

It might be ASB.

But if it came about, I guess the farthest it could extend would be around Rwanda or Uganda (which is already really far).

The Ottoman-Egyptian province of Equatoria actually did stretch as far south as the village of Wadelai in northern Uganda.
 
What if Egypt develops some sort of pan-African ideology in the 19th century, so that the colonized people's of Africa see Egypt as their patron in the decolonization struggle. I'm thinking a sort of USSR of Africa but rather than a socialist ideology, it's an anti-colonial pan-African ideology.

I could dig that one. Let's say we have a POD where Egypt is a bit more economically developed than OTL under the British, and where there ends up being a big capitalist-communist world war. Say the US never enters WWII, and the Soviets beat the Germans and keep pushing west. They end up with a war with Britain over their occupation of France, and start really encouraging colonial uprisings abroad. Egypt has a pro-Soviet revolution, and does a forced march industrialization as part of the war effort.

The Soviets do well in the war in Europe, the British don't have many troops to spare, and the communist Egyptian army marches ever farther south. I could see them reaching the Cape, with local revolutions farther south joining up with the conquering army rather than striking out on their own.

What comes next depends on what the larger timeline is like, but I could see this Egypt being the main player in a communist dominated Africa, and the Middle East to boot. A bit of a Soviet wank really, with communists likely dominating the whole plant outside of the Americas and a few bits and pieces elsewhere.
 
I think so - a "pan-Arab" ideology could also work to unite Egypt and northern Sudan as long as being Arab is defined by language.

If I remember right, Egypt in OTL actually occupied much of the Sudan before it (Egypt) fell under Britain's thumb. For a while, I think, the Sudan was jointly administered by Egypt and Britain. If Egypt could remain fully independent rather than becoming a protectorate, it could have retained the Sudan and maybe expanded even further south and grabbed more territory before Europeans could get there. One big problem Egypt might have had is that without being a British protectorate, they would have been on their own in dealing with the Mahdi's revolt and establishment of a state in the Sudan - assuming the Mahdi wasn't butterflied away by earlier changes.

Egypt could have retained Sudan if the politics around Egyptian independence and the overthrow of the monarchy had gone slightly different. Even after that, they could have re-united as part of pan-Arabism under Nasser. These are PODs after 1900 though.
 
What if Egypt develops some sort of pan-African ideology in the 19th century, so that the colonized people's of Africa see Egypt as their patron in the decolonization struggle. I'm thinking a sort of USSR of Africa but rather than a socialist ideology, it's an anti-colonial pan-African ideology.

I could dig that one. Let's say we have a POD where Egypt is a bit more economically developed than OTL under the British, and where there ends up being a big capitalist-communist world war. Say the US never enters WWII, and the Soviets beat the Germans and keep pushing west. They end up with a war with Britain over their occupation of France, and start really encouraging colonial uprisings abroad. Egypt has a pro-Soviet revolution, and does a forced march industrialization as part of the war effort.

The Soviets do well in the war in Europe, the British don't have many troops to spare, and the communist Egyptian army marches ever farther south. I could see them reaching the Cape, with local revolutions farther south joining up with the conquering army rather than striking out on their own.

What comes next depends on what the larger timeline is like, but I could see this Egypt being the main player in a communist dominated Africa, and the Middle East to boot. A bit of a Soviet wank really, with communists likely dominating the whole plant outside of the Americas and a few bits and pieces elsewhere.

I must say, whether or not communism is involved, I'm intrigued by the idea of Egypt with a pan-African outlook, not unlike Ghaddaffi's Libya. Unless we get something like Ghaddaffi's pipe dream of a borderless Africa, however, it might be a little too late.

Maybe if we start off with a much larger Egypt to begin with, assuming Egypt can keep control of all the Nile River down as far as the Lado enclave area of Uganda. Nationalism in Egypt embraces all of the Arabic, Coptic, and Nubian-speaking peoples of Egypt and Sudan as a single, inseperable ethnic group, centered not around Islam but on the shared legacy from Pharaonic Times between Egypt and Nubia. You'd somehow have to avoid the ethnic tensions between this dominant ethnic group and various smaller ethnic groups dominant in South Sudan and beyond so that, by the time of decolonization elsewhere in Africa, this larger Egypt would be seen as benevolent entity to other Africans.
 
I imagine this happening in the wake of a Meiji-like industrialization during and after Muhammad Ali in the 19th century.

I know you want this to happen after Muhammad Ali. But there is a far more obvious choice: what if our Corsican friend simply stayed in Egypt along with his army and fulfilled his plan to become "Emperor of the Orient"? He would become an islamic monarch, but import modern technology, administration and tactics to Egypt and make a great power out of it.

How would it happen? What would be the impact of such an Egypt in European affairs, the Ottoman Empire, and the Far East? Bonus if they get to complete that railway.

I'm sure Napoleon would firstly turn on the Middle East, and then on northern Africa. But if he builds the Suez Canal like he planned it, he would can support an invasion of Eritrea, Somalia and than Ethiopia. Also, future regents of Egypt, with the help of the Canal, can not only make good money, but also supply Egyptian troops on the whole eastern coastline of Africa.
 
I imagine this happening in the wake of a Meiji-like industrialization during and after Muhammad Ali in the 19th century....

Not unless we have a POD where the Pharaos stay in power and not only defy Rome, but also the Islamist expansion (or use it to their advantage), the crusaders, the Ottomans and Western imperialism.... Seeing the links ancient Egypt already had with Ethiopia and beyond, in 2000 years, they could well have reached the cape and we all would go to Tutmoses-burg to see the famous Zulu pyramids.
 
I am of the opinion that there are PODs for every situation, even ones that seem ridiculous. This does not seem ridiculous, we just need a scholar of modern Egyptian history or some research to discern the proper PODs (because we still need multiple). "Meiji-ing" countries has always been a favourite idea of mine, so I support the continuation of this to see where it goes.

I see no Alien Space Bats here. Now if it suddenly jumped to peak French Empire levels, that would be borderline ASB.

Err... Britain already controls the Cape at this point. So if Egypt were to stretch from Cairo to the Cape, they have to be able to beat Britain. So, ja, this IS 'jumped to peak French Empire levels', and that's not just borderline, it's completely ASB.
 
Give the Egyptians a good merchant fleet and redig the Pharoanic canal. Have their ships be both heading down the African Coast and to India or the Persian Gulf, with a large fleet that can ferry people for the Hajj when needed, as well as some in the Mediterranean in order to ship their goods to other countries. Perhaps this can help connect Oman and Zanzibar to them, if they are the ones doing the trade with them. Need to avoid a Seuz Canal though, as the British and French are unlikely to let them keep it.
 
Have a stronger and more naval-orientated Mameluke Egypt, and weaken the Ottomans so that the Egyptians aren't threatened too much from the north. When European traders start appearing in the Indian Ocean during the 16th century, the Egyptians try to keep them out by force in order to preserve their own control over the lucrative trade routes. To this end they establish a series of colonies on the east coast of Africa from where they can harass European shipping. Although their control doesn't extend more than a few miles inland, Egypt's colonies allow her to control the coastline. Eventually Egyptian control extends along the coast as far as the southern tip of Africa, meaning that the Egyptian Empire now controls land from Cape to Cairo.
 
Top