AHC: An Arab-influenced England

[Kaze]

Muslims win at Tours. The Empire stabilizes in Spain holding it until the Viking age. The Viking raid Spain (they did in real life) - the Vikings bring slaves into Danelaw Britain. Danelaw collapses due to King Alfred of Wessex. Alfred meets with the former Muslim slaves -> he pulls a Henry the Eighth early with a new religion - Islam.

 

[Grey Wolf]

Do you really think that the Ummayads were robotic conquering machines instead of a preindustrial state like any other? They were operating at the very end of their logistics train, and the Ummayads had their own internal issues. I never said it would have no impact, I tried to say that the Ummayads would not be able to expand significantly further, not that a defeat at Tours won't throw the Carolingians into chaos, which it certainly will, but the stuff about it "saving western civilization" and preventing a Muslim France is way to overblown IMO, and the Ummayads aren't in the best position to capitalize on it if they start running short of manpower.

But aren't they already IN Septimania? If they hold onto that, then they start to convert it, and increase manpower. If Martel is dead, what chance for Odo in Aquitaine? He had already basically run to Martel to get back-up. He'd previously lost to the Ummayads. A conquest of Aquitaine seems pretty likely in this respect.

 

[Analytical Engine]

But aren't they already IN Septimania? If they hold onto that, then they start to convert it, and increase manpower. If Martel is dead, what chance for Odo in Aquitaine? He had already basically run to Martel to get back-up. He'd previously lost to the Ummayads. A conquest of Aquitaine seems pretty likely in this respect.

If the Franks lose to the Ummayads, then what is the likelihood they seek aid from elsewhere, to help Hold Back The Heathen(TM)?

 

[Nivek]

If the Franks lose to the Ummayads, then what is the likelihood they seek aid from elsewhere, to help Hold Back The Heathen(TM)?

from who? ERE is busy on the balkans, Lombard are figthing the remainder romans colonies in italy and themselves too, the alemanni are still pagan and they covet Austrasia and Neustrasia

But aren't they already IN Septimania? If they hold onto that, then they start to convert it, and increase manpower. If Martel is dead, what chance for Odo in Aquitaine? He had already basically run to Martel to get back-up. He'd previously lost to the Ummayads. A conquest of Aquitaine seems pretty likely in this respect.

That is why Toulouse is important too, both won there not Narbonne siege...

 

[SunKing105]

But aren't they already IN Septimania? If they hold onto that, then they start to convert it, and increase manpower. If Martel is dead, what chance for Odo in Aquitaine? He had already basically run to Martel to get back-up. He'd previously lost to the Ummayads. A conquest of Aquitaine seems pretty likely in this respect.

Conversion of the populace to Islam in many regions took many centuries, there were still regions with sizeable Christian pluralities or majorities even into the beginning of the second millenium. I can see the elites converting, and a few mosques placed in strategic cities and urban centers, but the core of the Ummayad armies will remain composed of Arabs and Berbers. As for Aquitaine, the question is whether they can actually hold it, since there are more pressing concerns than fighting against some Franks in some remote corner of the empire.

 

[Nivek]

Muslims win at Tours. The Empire stabilizes in Spain holding it until the Viking age. The Viking raid Spain (they did in real life) - the Vikings bring slaves into Danelaw Britain. Danelaw collapses due to King Alfred of Wessex. Alfred meets with the former Muslim slaves -> he pulls a Henry the Eighth early with a new religion - Islam.

Nah too little to be an influee at all.

 

[CaptainShadow]

Muslims win at Tours. The Empire stabilizes in Spain holding it until the Viking age. The Viking raid Spain (they did in real life) - the Vikings bring slaves into Danelaw Britain. Danelaw collapses due to King Alfred of Wessex. Alfred meets with the former Muslim slaves -> he pulls a Henry the Eighth early with a new religion - Islam.

Why would he pull a Henry VIII ? He had good relations with the pope, was fervently Catholic (Henry stayed Christian, atleast), had sons etc. and:
"During this period, the Viking raids were often seen as a divine punishment, and Alfred may have wished to revive religious awe in order to appease God's wrath."
-Wikipedia

Assuming this is true, the chances of him converting is near 0.

 

[Kaze]

Why would he pull a Henry VIII ? He had good relations with the pope, was fervently Catholic (Henry stayed Christian, atleast), had sons etc. and:
"During this period, the Viking raids were often seen as a divine punishment, and Alfred may have wished to revive religious awe in order to appease God's wrath."
-Wikipedia

Assuming this is true, the chances of him converting is near 0.

"Divine wrath" is the way to go -> "I must be following the wrong god, that is why I am being punished. These Muslim guys might have the answer."

 

[CaptainShadow]

"Divine wrath" is the way to go -> "I must be following the wrong god, that is why I am being punished. These Muslim guys might have the answer."

I don't think so, he was fervently Catholic, as I said, and people just genrally saying "I'm following the wrong God" won't happen.
Even if it did, then he'll get overthrown.

 

[raharris1973]

Your challenge, if you choose to accept it, is to have England, and by extension the British Isles, be influenced substantially by Arab culture. The POD can be anytime, and I understand this is really tough, almost like 15th century Byzantine survival tough, or even ASB, but we'll still try to make it possible.

More likely in my old ASB scenario here https://www.alternatehistory.com/fo...rted-to-just-west-of-iberia-in-710-ad.477094/
but not impossible without, as shown by some of the means discussed by other posters in this thread.