AHC an African Meiji

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How plausible would it be for an African state to Modernize?
 

Onyx

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Mali, Ethiopia, Mutapa, Asanti, and Kongo are the best nations to pull one, but you may have to set it way back to the 1500s to avoid the collapsing of these empires
 

archaeogeek

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Mali, Ethiopia, Mutapa, Asanti, and Kongo are the best nations to pull one, but you may have to set it way back to the 1500s to avoid the collapsing of these empires

Benin (not Dahomey) and Ouagadougou (i.e. Burkina Faso today) would have some chances; at the very least they could have positions akin to Siam.
 

yourworstnightmare

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Modernize in the way Japan did, and quickly become a Great Power: no. Africa was in a completely different situation. Modernize enough to resist colonialism/ imperialism should be possible though. Remember Ethiopia resisted the Europeans without modernizing, and a lot of old African states have better resources and should be in a better position to modernize (though these resources lured the Europeans there).
 
Mali, Ethiopia, Mutapa, Asanti, and Kongo are the best nations to pull one, but you may have to set it way back to the 1500s to avoid the collapsing of these empires

I think that PoD in 1500s is a very different beast from a typical Meiji. A 1500's PoD could have all many of modernized, non-Western states. It's getting modernized, non-Western states with an 1800's PoD thats a challenge.

I think Egypt and Ethiopia are the best bets for a Meiji.
 

yourworstnightmare

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I think that PoD in 1500s is a very different beast from a typical Meiji. A 1500's PoD could have all many of modernized, non-Western states. It's getting modernized, non-Western states with an 1800's PoD thats a challenge.

I think Egypt and Ethiopia are the best bets for a Meiji.
No, i think with a 1500 PoD you should look to West Africa. The trade with the Portuguese could start a reaction in the West African kingdoms. And when one kingdom start to adopt new innovations, the neighbors don't want to stay behind.
 
Madagascar almost did. If it could have avoided the disastrous Kim Jong Il-style reign of Queen Ranavalona and continued with the policies adopted by her husband (who she may well have had murdered), Radama the Great, then Madagascar could have reached at least Siam levels although probably not Japan levels.
 
I think Ethiopia is the best choice.

First, the problem is to be protected from Europeans. Japan was even before Meiji too powerful and too far away to attract European conquerors. Ethiopia would at least be too far away before the Suez channel was built.

Nevertheless, you'd probably still have to predate the Meiji some years - or at least take a prior POD which lets Ethiopia become stronger before Meiji takes place.

Preferring British advisors and providing trade opportunities for Britain might help as well. In a sense, Ethiopia could behave like a de-factor British protectorate until it is strong enough to become an official ally, just like Japan.

Another problem will be that Meiji in any African state should be slower than in Japan due to the lack of educated people.
 
Mali, Ethiopia, Mutapa, Asanti, and Kongo are the best nations to pull one, but you may have to set it way back to the 1500s to avoid the collapsing of these empires


What also needs to happen is that they need to make their own guns I mean they would use the slave trade money to buy guns which if they learned how to make guns then it would have made modernization a little bit easier. Also to combat not having educated people you can incourage european colonist to come to your empire for work and to teach the population. Also I think that if an african kingdom wants to modernize they would need to have a centralized governement.
 

yourworstnightmare

Banned
Donor
I think Ethiopia is the best choice.

First, the problem is to be protected from Europeans. Japan was even before Meiji too powerful and too far away to attract European conquerors. Ethiopia would at least be too far away before the Suez channel was built.

Nevertheless, you'd probably still have to predate the Meiji some years - or at least take a prior POD which lets Ethiopia become stronger before Meiji takes place.

Preferring British advisors and providing trade opportunities for Britain might help as well. In a sense, Ethiopia could behave like a de-factor British protectorate until it is strong enough to become an official ally, just like Japan.

Another problem will be that Meiji in any African state should be slower than in Japan due to the lack of educated people.

Well, first of all you need to get rid of the era of Princes, when Ethiopia was split in several Amharic and Oromo kingdoms, and only reunited in 1855. Also, Ethiopia was an expanding empire during the 1800s. Since the reunification under Tewodoros, Ethiopia expanded to the lowlands, subjugating several peoples.
Ethiopia's problems are several though:
1. Ethnic diversity, rivalries between Amharas, Tigray and Oromos, between Christianity and Islam. The Oromos seldom felt loyalty to the Imperial Crown, and for example betrayed Ethiopia during the Italian invasion 1935-36.
2. Feudal Society: the emperors were weak, the provincial governors acted as kings in their provinces. Also several plots and uprisings by dissatisfied nobles. Some emperors were deposed etc.
3. Serfdom and slavery: The peoples of the Lowlands usually became serfs under Amharic soldiers and officials. Slave raids were carried out against peoples both inside of Ethiopia, and outside, which pissed of the colonial powers (several raids in British, French and Italian territories)
4. No access to the sea, an early POD could of course change that.
 
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