AHC: American Rugby?

What's on the tin.:p

What would it take for the U.S., POD after 1860, to end up with a game nearer rugby or Oz rules football than gridiron by 1900?
 

GdwnsnHo

Banned
I'd argue nothing. If you want a rugby-like game, just go with Rugby.

If you want it to be popular enough so that the USA has reached its true potential, then set up a paid American Rugby Union set up earlier, with substantial promotion, and lobby to lift the restrictions in the world cup sooner.

America enters the big leagues early on, and the world quakes in terror at the American Eagles.
 

frlmerrin

Banned
Actually the League game has a lot of similarities with Gridiron. Mind you it is not really proper football, not like Union football.
 
Never! Our glorious American football shall never die! :p

no, but seriously, just have a rugby league set up sooner, either by way of anti-Canadian sentiments or a deeper connection with Britain.
 
Have gridiron banned? Rugby would pop up instead, though it might have particular American characteristics.
 
A professional rugby league sounds good.;)

What I'm thinking is, tho, is a uniquely "American rugby": not gridiron, not Oz rules, & not OTL rugby.
 
What I'm thinking is, tho, is a uniquely "American rugby": not gridiron, not Oz rules, & not OTL rugby.

A different American Rugby is quite likely to develop anyway, for much the same reasons that Rugby League developed different rules to Rugby Union in the UK - the desire to create a faster and more entertaining sport.

Cheers,
Nigel.
 

Driftless

Donor
Have Amos Alonzo Stagg direct his efforts towards Rugby and not towards the gridiron form of football. He had a powerful impact on shaping the form of the game with a multitude of innovations that carry through into the modern game.
 
NCW8 said:
A different American Rugby is quite likely to develop anyway, for much the same reasons that Rugby League developed different rules to Rugby Union in the UK - the desire to create a faster and more entertaining sport.
Driftless said:
Have Amos Alonzo Stagg direct his efforts towards Rugby and not towards the gridiron form of football. He had a powerful impact on shaping the form of the game with a multitude of innovations that carry through into the modern game.
:cool::cool: Thx!

Any thoughts what it might look like? (I know almost nothing about rugby.:eek:) I had in mind no forward passes, & a bounce instead of a snap or scrum.
 
Remember that American Rugby IS gridiron - or at least that's what it's evolved into.

So. Basically, you need to stop the evolution away from the ancestral English format. (Which seems to be still have been in the process of codification.)

Note that the earliest 'football' games in the US were what we'd call soccer - no carrying the ball.

Then McGill introduced Rugby to Harvard, and it is that game that grew into gridiron.

According to what I can find, Walter Camp is the person responsible for the major changes that led US Rugby/Football/Grid iron to evolve into a completely different game.

Have him not get involved, and you might have a chance for international rules of some sort to lead to a common game.
 
Remember that American Rugby IS gridiron - or at least that's what it's evolved into.

So. Basically, you need to stop the evolution away from the ancestral English format. (Which seems to be still have been in the process of codification.)

According to what I can find, Walter Camp is the person responsible for the major changes that led US Rugby/Football/Grid iron to evolve into a completely different game.

When Walter Camp threw his forward pass the ref is supposed to have spun a coin to decide whether to allow the resulting touchdown. Have the ref's coin toss fall the other way so he rules against it. Also don't have anything more than a scrumcap allowed as protection. That keeps the game closer as well. American Football would still evolve away from its Rugby origins but perhaps less so. Something more akin to Rugby League perhaps?
 
Dathi THorfinnsson said:
Remember that American Rugby IS gridiron - or at least that's what it's evolved into.

So. Basically, you need to stop the evolution away from the ancestral English format. (Which seems to be still have been in the process of codification.)

Note that the earliest 'football' games in the US were what we'd call soccer - no carrying the ball.

Then McGill introduced Rugby to Harvard, and it is that game that grew into gridiron.

According to what I can find, Walter Camp is the person responsible for the major changes that led US Rugby/Football/Grid iron to evolve into a completely different game.

Have him not get involved, and you might have a chance for international rules of some sort to lead to a common game.
Works for me.;) Would you rule out two or three "rule sets" competing, with Camp's OTL set losing out? (I'm thinking of a parallel with OTL baseball. I presume there were enough rugby variants around.)

I stumbled on this thread, proposing the development of American rugby, with a 15-man side, based on Welsh immigration (per Argentina); AIUI, the Argentine game developed thanks to UK railway workers building the local network, so immigration alone wouldn't get it. What would you say?

Any thoughts on rules? Style of play? Particular "movers" in TTL's game, akin to Camp, who'd move the game away from OTL rugby without getting to gridiron?

On the technical side, given deaths in the game were pretty common into the '20s, what would you say about the gear in the new game? Can rule changes prevent deaths, or do you need to add pads & helmets? (Frex, a "no tackle" rule? Or a change from scrum to "bounce" to start play?) If gear is "mandatory", does it (necessarily) develop more rapidly if gridiron doesn't happen? (My sense is, rugby is rougher, so it pushes things harder.)
 
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