AHC: Alternate Saints
- Thread starter ArchimedesCircle
- Start date
The Anglicans do, although as far as I know they haven't actually canonised anyone themselves (other than Charles King and Martyr, of course).
As for the OP, I've always been slightly surprised that Alfred the Great never got canonised. He was a great patron of the Church and also a great king who defended Christendom from the heathen.
Catherine of Aragon -- patron saint of wronged or abandoned spouses, maybe?
According to Wikipedia, "In 1734, the Archbishop of Paris heard evidence to support James [II]'s canonisation, but nothing came of it." Change that, and England could have another royal saint, alongside Edward the Confessor and Edmund the Martyr.
For a slightly left-field idea, Francis of Assisi once tried to end the Crusades by travelling to Egypt and converting the Sultan to Catholicism. If he succeeded, and the Sultan (as seems likely) got murdered for apostasy by his noblemen, he could well end up being venerated as a martyr.
samcster94
Banned
I can totally see her being canonized, by Anglicans(Catholics have issues with divorce) .
What is in it for the Sultan for him to leave Islam(even if he doesn't get killed for some improbable reason)?
As someone who has lived all his life in areas with a strong Lutheran cultural heritage (Saxony and Sweden), I can tell you that you correct.Lutherans already do as well, though they are a bit more selective than the Catholic and Orthodox churches. At least, so my Lutheran friends tell me
Besides biblical figures (Mary, Peter, Paul ...) and angles (especially Michael) some later saints are popular (Martin, Nicholas aka Santa Claus ...) which is apparent when you look at the sheer number of churches called St. Nicholas Church (like Nikolaikirche in Leipzig).
About the OP:
What about St. Martin of Wittenberg, the great reformer of the Catholic Church?
Deleted member 67076
St. Sharpur II the Great, rescuer of the Christians of the East from the wrath of the New Babylon- the Roman Empire. A new Cyrus in every sense of the word, it was under his wise and blessed rule that Christians were liberated from the persecution of Rome to safety and protection of Persia as Rome was pushed out of the satrapies of Syria, Anatolia, Armenia and Egypt.
A new Cyrus in every sense of the word, it was under his wise and blessed rule that Christians were liberated from the persecution of Rome to safety and protection of Persia as Rome was pushed out of the satrapies of Syria, Anatolia, Armenia and Egypt.They've also canonized Jane Grey, Martyr. Very appropriately.
Charlemagne's been beatified, but not canonized... which means yes, he could definitely go the rest of the way.
And guess who else's beatified? Blessed Karl I and IV.
I know that Carl has beatified. Other possible Habsburgs could be empress Zita or Franz Josef I. It would be too very intresting to see Otto von Habsburg beatified but it might be pretty difficult with post-WW1 POD.
He was, but by the wrong person. Paschal III, an imperial antipope, canonized him in 1165, but with the end of the schism all his acts were rescinded. If Frederick I had won his struggle with the pope, Charlemagne would be an acknowledged saint today.
I mean, there's already a Catholic fraternal order named after him...St. Christopher Columbus, the Patron Saint of the Americas, the man who brought the light of Christendom to the blighted demon worshiping natives of that region of the world.
St. Sharpur II the Great, rescuer of the Christians of the East from the wrath of the New Babylon- the Roman Empire.
His closest adviser who had been with him since he was a child converted and was martyred with Simeon the Persian and is regarded as an (obscure) saint. Perhaps Sarpor/Sharpur II decides to convert to Christianity instead, somehow survives the inevitable firestorm against him (flees to the mostly Christian provinces in Mesopotamia and then regroups and takes the throne back?), and overall solidify the religion in Persia, and this isn't as ASB as it seems.
Wasn't there an attempt to canonize King Henry III of England? Although, from what I've read about him, he was hardly saintly material in the same sense as his contemporary, Louis IX of France.
Saint Muhammad
Born 570 AD in the city of Mecca in Arabia. A member of a powerful tribe, Muhammad become a camel trader. During a caravan to Syria, Muhammad saw the light of the angel Gabriel and was determined to spread the Christian faith in Arabia. Upon returning home, Muhammad began spreading Christianity yet in his thirty-third year he was martyred by the pagan Arabs.
Born 570 AD in the city of Mecca in Arabia. A member of a powerful tribe, Muhammad become a camel trader. During a caravan to Syria, Muhammad saw the light of the angel Gabriel and was determined to spread the Christian faith in Arabia. Upon returning home, Muhammad began spreading Christianity yet in his thirty-third year he was martyred by the pagan Arabs.
Holy Adolf, pray for us!
After WWI, a rootless Adolf Hitler has a conversion experience and becomes deeply Catholic. He founds a lay order, National Communion, that glorifies labor and strength and the common man and was very modern. It is known for its military-style uniforms and mass spectacles. The movement was deeply anticommunist in its origins and sought to provide a path for Catholics to embrace nationalism and national ideals. The movement was highly successful in post war and Depression era Germany, Austrian, and among German ethnics elsewhere. Under priest Josemaria Escriva, the Spanish branch was also highly successful, growing rapidly and quickly recovering from the Anarquia after French intervention restored order.
St. Adolf's impassioned and spell-binding radio preaching drove the movement's early success for decades, as did its innovative use of sound trucks and mobile cinema projection. The extent to which organized violence led by the movement's male youth organization, Christian Shock, helped the movement's success, is controversial. Although the National Communion strongly advocated Germanic reunion, St. Adolf was briefly imprisoned during the Eastern War for his opposition to German reunification under the then-German regime, with its Protestant and even secular elements. However, St. Adolf later reconciled with the new German order and, during the First League Intervention into the Balkans, was only restrained from personally taking up arms after the Pope himself intervened.
Although the National Communion was deeply influential in the history of both the German Federation and Spain, it is probably most known for its decisive support for the foundation of Israel. St. Adolf's vow to "purify the Semite through the settlement of Palestine," led to massive unofficial aid, including a volunteer legion, that tipped the balance for the nascent State of Israel. The National Communion's reputation, and to an extent, self-identity, as a deeply philo-Semitic organization dates from that era.
However, it must be acknowledged that St. Hitler was deeply anti-Semitic beginning in his pre-war Vienna period, and that much of his initial radio preaching was remarkably, even shockingly, anti-Semitic to modern sensibilities. Whether these sentiments persisted into his later life in private conversation remains in dispute. Further, revisionist historians have suggested that even St. Hitler's support for Israel was entirely consonant with, and indeed originated in, his anti-Semitic views. His defenders argue that the philo-semitic effects of his advocacy for Israel are what count, and suggest that his anti-Semitic statements, while real, must be understood in the context of his times.
Although the Vatican was dubious about St. Adolf and the National Communion movement during his life--relations were often strained--his undoubted piety, the enduring vigor of Catholic laicism in the Germanic Federation and to a lesser extent Spain, and the verified miracles that attend his devotion, ultimately resulted in his beatification and later canonization.
After WWI, a rootless Adolf Hitler has a conversion experience and becomes deeply Catholic. He founds a lay order, National Communion, that glorifies labor and strength and the common man and was very modern. It is known for its military-style uniforms and mass spectacles. The movement was deeply anticommunist in its origins and sought to provide a path for Catholics to embrace nationalism and national ideals. The movement was highly successful in post war and Depression era Germany, Austrian, and among German ethnics elsewhere. Under priest Josemaria Escriva, the Spanish branch was also highly successful, growing rapidly and quickly recovering from the Anarquia after French intervention restored order.
St. Adolf's impassioned and spell-binding radio preaching drove the movement's early success for decades, as did its innovative use of sound trucks and mobile cinema projection. The extent to which organized violence led by the movement's male youth organization, Christian Shock, helped the movement's success, is controversial. Although the National Communion strongly advocated Germanic reunion, St. Adolf was briefly imprisoned during the Eastern War for his opposition to German reunification under the then-German regime, with its Protestant and even secular elements. However, St. Adolf later reconciled with the new German order and, during the First League Intervention into the Balkans, was only restrained from personally taking up arms after the Pope himself intervened.
Although the National Communion was deeply influential in the history of both the German Federation and Spain, it is probably most known for its decisive support for the foundation of Israel. St. Adolf's vow to "purify the Semite through the settlement of Palestine," led to massive unofficial aid, including a volunteer legion, that tipped the balance for the nascent State of Israel. The National Communion's reputation, and to an extent, self-identity, as a deeply philo-Semitic organization dates from that era.
However, it must be acknowledged that St. Hitler was deeply anti-Semitic beginning in his pre-war Vienna period, and that much of his initial radio preaching was remarkably, even shockingly, anti-Semitic to modern sensibilities. Whether these sentiments persisted into his later life in private conversation remains in dispute. Further, revisionist historians have suggested that even St. Hitler's support for Israel was entirely consonant with, and indeed originated in, his anti-Semitic views. His defenders argue that the philo-semitic effects of his advocacy for Israel are what count, and suggest that his anti-Semitic statements, while real, must be understood in the context of his times.
Although the Vatican was dubious about St. Adolf and the National Communion movement during his life--relations were often strained--his undoubted piety, the enduring vigor of Catholic laicism in the Germanic Federation and to a lesser extent Spain, and the verified miracles that attend his devotion, ultimately resulted in his beatification and later canonization.
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Well, it was Henry VIII getting the divorce, not Catherine. In fact Catherine IIRC always refused to accept the validity of the divorce, and continued referring to Henry as her husband.
Saving his eternal soul, duh.
Saint Kimpa Vita of the Antonian Catholic Church of Central Africa¹
Kimpa was a prophet and anti-colonialist leader of the Antonian movement in early 18th century KiKongo.
Believing Jesus and historical biblical figures were of kiKongo descent and St Antony near prophet status she sought to upbraid European missionary and colonial power entrenching itself into Congolese politics society.
Kimpa in this ATL is not crushed and is considered the mother of this localized sect of Catholicism that is (much later) begrudgingly accepted as a part of a ecumenical communion in the broader Catholic world because she and it's founding leaders acknowledged papal authority (just as OTL).
Yet her sect remained hostile to European missionaries, ended colonialist expansion teaching that they were "corrupt and unsympathetic to the spiritual needs of Kongolese Catholics".
Eventually this sect agrees with the Levantine origins of Christ and demote Anthony to a highly venerated apparition of inspiration. Yet remain staunchly KiKongo spread kongolese and Creole kongolese culture and society throughout Central Africa.
Ki-Kongo/Latin Creole is the liturgical language, an sort of reversal of Habla Congo found in Palo.
¹ I'm imagining a splinter church that kept Catholic Christianity almost wholly after failed Portuguese, German and Belgian colonialist forces from Republic of Congo to north Central Namibia (with later branches in Rwanda, Uganda, CAR and Gabon, Equatorial Guinea, Eastern Tanzania).
Kimpa was a prophet and anti-colonialist leader of the Antonian movement in early 18th century KiKongo.
Believing Jesus and historical biblical figures were of kiKongo descent and St Antony near prophet status she sought to upbraid European missionary and colonial power entrenching itself into Congolese politics society.
Kimpa in this ATL is not crushed and is considered the mother of this localized sect of Catholicism that is (much later) begrudgingly accepted as a part of a ecumenical communion in the broader Catholic world because she and it's founding leaders acknowledged papal authority (just as OTL).
Yet her sect remained hostile to European missionaries, ended colonialist expansion teaching that they were "corrupt and unsympathetic to the spiritual needs of Kongolese Catholics".
Eventually this sect agrees with the Levantine origins of Christ and demote Anthony to a highly venerated apparition of inspiration. Yet remain staunchly KiKongo spread kongolese and Creole kongolese culture and society throughout Central Africa.
Ki-Kongo/Latin Creole is the liturgical language, an sort of reversal of Habla Congo found in Palo.
¹ I'm imagining a splinter church that kept Catholic Christianity almost wholly after failed Portuguese, German and Belgian colonialist forces from Republic of Congo to north Central Namibia (with later branches in Rwanda, Uganda, CAR and Gabon, Equatorial Guinea, Eastern Tanzania).
Saint Isabella of Castille.
Yeah... by an anti-pope, to not risk legitimatizing a false-pontiff Charlemagne was never canonized by the official Catholic Church.
samcster94
Banned
Was this one of the guys in the 1300's who was called Pope but not recognized as such retroactively due to not being the Rome line?Saint Isabella of Castille.
Yeah... by an anti-pope, to not risk legitimatizing a false-pontiff Charlemagne was never canonized by the official Catholic Church.