AHC: Alternate European Capitals

Following the successful passage of the United Kingdom Federation Bill of 1890 the City of York is established as the new federal capital of the United Kingdom with London remaining the capital of England, Edinburgh capital of Scotland, Cardiff capital of Wales and Dublin capital of Ireland. York is chosen for its central location to the four nations. Later the Isle of Man and Channel Islands join the Federation and send MFP's to York.

York becoming the capital of UK?
Liverpool is more likely in that time tbh.
 
Croatia, lot's of possibilities, if no Turkish invasion or weaker: Knin or Bihać. If no fire- Varaždin.
Aaaaay! Nice to see someone mentioning the Balkans.

Speaking of which, Kragujevac was initially the capital of Serbia (after independence from the Ottomans), and not Belgrade. The main reason for moving the capital was its proximity to western Europe, specifically Austria-Hungary, with which the Obrenović kings were closely aligned, and the distancing of the Serbian centre of power from Turkey. At the time, Belgrade was a border city while Kragujevac was close to the border but not right on it (the deciding difference being which country it was near).

So why keep the capital where it is? Well, it was moved back to Kragujevac once afterwards. There were two main reasons to have Kragujevac as the capital (during the reign of Knez Mihailo III, who moved the capital):
  1. It was in the south, in other words in the direction of Serbia's planned expansion. The Serbs did not want/could not expand into Austria in the near future, but having the capital in the south means a larger military presence where it is needed more, the ability to exercise greater control over new lands (Belgrade was always seen as far off regardless of where in Serbia you were, this would be a big problem when the south of Serbia was reincorporated, and an even bigger problem with the addition of Macedonia)
  2. Shortly after it was made the capital for the first time, Belgrade experienced a lot of economic problems due to the wealthy Turkish merchant class leaving the city along with other Muslims. A lot of wealth and people flowed out of the city, so it could be said that the new capital was a failure. The capital was moved back to Kragujevac for a bit, so it could easily have stayed there assuming people were dissatisfied enough with the economic mess in Belgrade.

The Karađorđević princes could also have moved the capital back. After considerable southward expansion, Aleksandar Karađorđević could have moved the capital back to Kragujevac to rule from a more central position, and away from the Austrians, who he saw as Serbia's enemies (the Karađorđević dynasty had stronger relations with Russia). He would want a capital that would be easier to defend from Austria in case of a war. He still wanted to expand south, so that is still valid. He could also move it to Niš, but that would likely be too far south, and Kragujevac had already been the capital before, so it had the necessary infrastructure.

Also:

Switzerland's capital could have been in Zurich.

This last one is a post-1900 POD so feel free to ignore it, but if Slovakia had never been united with Czechia, its capital would likely not have been as close to the border (if this is to be achieved, pan-Slavism might need to be weaker but ultimately, all of the nations that the pan Slavic movement produced broke up, so the map would likely still be recognizable to a modern OTL viewer.
 
Alternate US capitals would be easy: Philadelphia WAS the capital for a while, it would be pretty easy to keep it there. New York would be pretty easy to make happen, too.
 
Sorry! Should have read the prompt more carefully.
For an actually European suggestion, how about St. Petersburg as the capital of Russia?
 

Driftless

Donor
Trondheim/Nidaros Norway. It was the historic capital for a lengthy time in the early 1000's. You could also make cases for both Bergen (key center for the Hanseatic League) and Stavanger
 
Let's make as many countries have alternate capitals as possible, it shouldn't be too hard, since most territories nowadays are more determined by ethnic groups than be royal houses.

Portugal - Coimbra, I think it was the capital for a time, not sure though
Spain - Toledo
France - Orleans, have Paris be less important of a city and any house which becomes King could move it back to their home. Also Versailles.
UK - York
Ireland - Cork, anywhere really depending on how Ireland is united
Belgium - Liege, perhaps forming from an expansion of the bishopric lands
Netherlands - Amsterdam, no role for The Hague
Germany - literally anywhere
Norway - see post above mine
Sweden - Uppsala, historically most significant city, or build Stockholm in a slightly different place and call it something different
Finland - Turku
Estonia - Pärnu, don't found Talinn
Latvia - probably have to found Riga in a slightly different location and call it something different, its location is too good
Lithuania - have king Gediminas go hunting somewhere else, and you don't found Vilnius
Russia - Novgorod, Tver, Vladimir, or whichever other state unites Russia; or just keep it in Petrograd
Belarus - idk, another vague one where it could be a lot of places, perhaps Polotsk or Pinsk
Ukraine - Chernihiv or another historic principality capital in the country, pretty much the same situation as Russia and Belarus
Moldova - have another city be bigger/more important than Chisinau when Moldova is form
Romania - Alba Iulia, see Zagan's Romania-wank (the original one)
Bulgaria - Tarnovo stays the capital
Greece - Konstantinoupouli of course :p or Salonica
Northern Macedonia - Bitola (Monastir)
Albania - Durres; Vlore could work too
Bosnia - Visoko, capital in late 1300's, or Banja Luka depending on how ethnic balance shakes out
Serbia - Kragujevac, see above
Croatia - Perhaps a coastal city like Rijeka or Zadar, also was addressed earlier
Slovenia - Celje, seat of the powerful Counts of Celje, or Maribor, the second-largest city
Hungary - Buda, or Pest
Slovakia - Somewhere further from the border if not united with Czechia, like Kosice
Poland - Krakow, or the Moon
Czechia - Brno if Moravia has greater importance, otherwise Prague seems pretty entrenched
Austria - Graz, if Austria is centered on Styria; Steyr or Linz are pretty central too, but anything after Habsburgs would have to be Vienna
Switzerland - Zurich is a decent candidate
Italy - Turin if S-P Kings decide not to move, or Florence for a similar reason, or Naples if the Two Sicilies unite Italy, or pretty much anywhere else

That should be everyone other than the microstates. Whether you can realistically piece together a history that keeps all of these countries recognizable is another question
 
There were two main reasons to have Kragujevac as the capital (during the reign of Knez Mihailo III, who moved the capital):
  1. It was in the south, in other words in the direction of Serbia's planned expansion. The Serbs did not want/could not expand into Austria in the near future, but having the capital in the south means a larger military presence where it is needed more, the ability to exercise greater control over new lands (Belgrade was always seen as far off regardless of where in Serbia you were, this would be a big problem when the south of Serbia was reincorporated, and an even bigger problem with the addition of Macedonia)
  2. Shortly after it was made the capital for the first time, Belgrade experienced a lot of economic problems due to the wealthy Turkish merchant class leaving the city along with other Muslims. A lot of wealth and people flowed out of the city, so it could be said that the new capital was a failure. The capital was moved back to Kragujevac for a bit, so it could easily have stayed there assuming people were dissatisfied enough with the economic mess in Belgrade.

How likely would it be for Serbia to move its capital even further south-- Nis, maybe? Or Pristina/Skopje for a more wildcard scenario? These areas are far from Europe's other capitals and probably not richer than Kragujevac, but might the ability to direct migration flows around desirable territories counterbalance that?
 
Croatia, lot's of possibilities, if no Turkish invasion or weaker: Knin or Bihać. If no fire- Varaždin.

This greatly depends on what the borders end up looking.

Knin is unlikely to remain a major city for long once the industrialisation starts and even before then would have been eclipsed in size and economic importance by coastal places such as Split, Šibenik or Zadar. Bihać has a similar problem as it has always been on the edge of Croatia political life territorially speaking. When the centre of in the hinterlands of Zadar and Split it was on the norther periphery, and when the centre moved onto the Zagreb-Varaždin axis it was once again left of the periphery just this time southern.

I just don't see a political and thus economic situation that would result in Bihać becoming the capitol that would not also render the move of the capitol from the coastal regions unnecessary.


If we are looking for a viable spot for the development of a medieval political centre into a modern one the part time court location of Biograd is probably in the best spot. It is on the coast and it has an expansive agrarian hinterland. Šibenik would probably be the second best. If Croatia can acquire either Split or Zadar at any time before the industrial revolution either could also be as viable location with a long urban history and tradition.
 
Maybe if Scotland unites the UK the capital could be Edinburgh.

Scotland kind of did unite the UK IOTL... The problem with choosing an alternate capital for England/the UK is that the south-east is pretty much guaranteed to be the most populous area, and in that area London is so well-placed (easy access to trade from the continent, and on a navigable river going deep into the hinterland) that it's hard to find anywhere equally good.
 
How likely would it be for Serbia to move its capital even further south-- Nis, maybe? Or Pristina/Skopje for a more wildcard scenario? These areas are far from Europe's other capitals and probably not richer than Kragujevac, but might the ability to direct migration flows around desirable territories counterbalance that?

During WW1 the capital was temporarily moved to Niš, and it was treated as a sort of second capital since then so maybe. As for anything further south, unlikely. Moving the king to Macedonia is like asking to have him assassinated by the VMRO so Skopje is unlikely. Pristina is actually more plausible, there were a lot of Serbs in Kosovo and Metohija at the time and the Albanians there were not yet nearly as rebellious as the macedonians. Ras is possible, since it was the original capital (in the middle ages) but that would be an Athens-style revival. Prizren also has a historical precedent as it was the capital of the Serbian Empire for a while, but it would be super down south, and would require the Balkan Alliance's plan for Albania being put into place, which leaves "recognizable" states, but Albania is smaller, while Serbia gets quite a bit of OTL Albanian land, putting more space between Prizren and the border.

For reference, these are the different proposed borders of Albania:

lesser albania.jpg
 
I cannot repeat this often enough, but the only remote chance to have Frankfurt as the German capital following the 1848 revolution is to have the radical republicans win an utter and complete victory over all other factions. That in itself is pretty much impossible, so the capital of a German Empire would always end up in either Berlin or, in a much less likely scenario, Vienna.

It could end up as the German equivalent to The Hague though. In the Netherlands, Amsterdam has the title of capital and our monarchs are inaugurated there. However The Hague is the seat of Parliament, all embassies are there (Amsterdam has consulates), and the King has his 'work palace' in The Hague (Noordeinde).
 
Pristina is actually more plausible, there were a lot of Serbs in Kosovo and Metohija at the time and the Albanians there were not yet nearly as rebellious as the macedonians. Ras is possible, since it was the original capital (in the middle ages) but that would be an Athens-style revival. Prizren also has a historical precedent as it was the capital of the Serbian Empire for a while, but it would be super down south, and would require the Balkan Alliance's plan for Albania being put into place, which leaves "recognizable" states, but Albania is smaller, while Serbia gets quite a bit of OTL Albanian land, putting more space between Prizren and the border.

Considering the fact that this is the pre-1900 section, we shouldn't forget to consider the notion of Ras, Prizren or even Priština (Bela Crkva [today's Kuršumlija] and Niš also have some precedent too thanks to Stefan Nemanja) being the Serbian capital in a world where the Ottoman rule over the Balkans never occurred. This keeps both the cultural and the religious centers of Serbia in what we consider its south today, and while there had been Serb migrations towards the north since the 14th century, without Ottoman rule they wouldn't have been as intense. Heck, if the Serbian Empire managed to maintain itself, Skoplje could see itself be a potential capital, and may even direct migration southwards into Macedonia, so I wouldn't completely discount it.

If we remain post-Ottoman however, another possible capital for Serbia could be Topola in the event of a successful First Serbian Uprising (best achieved in 1807), especially if Karađorđe manages to succeed in his power struggle against the Administering Soviet and achieves TTL's equivalent to the Grand Vožd title.

A selection of other possible capitals also includes Kruševac (if the Lazarević dynasty maintains rule), Smederevo (if the Ottomans managed to get pushed back during the times of the Branković dynasty), Gornja Crnuća (perhaps under a more paranoid Obrenović dynasty in the event that Karađorđe wasn't assassinated), Novo Brdo (being one of the most prosperous and heavily fortified cities of late Medieval Serbia, also applicable for post-Ottoman pushback in the event of it gaining more influence), and if we had a Serbia that's really forced to the north, Sremska Mitrovica or Vršac could function for a more Vojvodian Serbia.
 
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Considering the fact that this is the pre-1900 section, we shouldn't forget to consider the notion of Ras, Prizren or even Priština (Bela Crkva [today's Kuršumlija] and Niš also have some precedent too thanks to Stefan Nemanja) being the Serbian capital in a world where the Ottoman rule over the Balkans never occurred. This keeps both the cultural and the religious centers of Serbia in what we consider its south today, and while there had been Serb migrations towards the north since the 14th century, without Ottoman rule they wouldn't have been as intense. Heck, if the Serbian Empire managed to maintain itself, Skoplje could see itself be a potential capital, and may even direct migration southwards into Macedonia, so I wouldn't completely discount it.

You've got some solid points there, but here's my reasoning:

I didn't consider any no-otto stuff since it would have a massive effect on which states exist in the Balkans, and might push the boundaries of the whole "recognizable states" rule. For example, Bosnia before the ottomans was more or less a minor Serbian and Croatian state (sorry to any patriotic Bosnians here, it's just what the records show), the Bosniaks are not really mentioned as a separate thing until the Ottoman conquest when they are defined as different by the fact that they are Muslim. Either way, looking at older ethnographic maps, no ottomans means no recognizable borders for a Bosnian state (and in my opinion, no sustainably sized Bosnian state), the Bosnian Kingdom is unlikely to last long assuming Serbia continues to exist. OTL Northern Macedonia is a product of the specific situation that built up to the Balkan wars. If Serbia had other places to expand to, Macedonia would probably be Bulgarian with the exception of the Serbian Northeast and maybe Albania getting a chunk of the west. Hell, Macedonia could end up being Greek depending on the POD of a no-ottos TL. With certain PODs, Albania might not exist either. For the sake of the smaller Balkan states, I avoided deviating too much from our timeline, which meant sticking to more recent history.

However, I see those links in your description and will be sure to check them out. Serbia is rarely discussed here and I'm all for underused scenarios, especially anything to do with Serbs and South Slavs in general (I have yet to write any South Slavic stuff myself though since I'm still putting off continuing my Korean TL).
 
I didn't consider any no-otto stuff since it would have a massive effect on which states exist in the Balkans, and might push the boundaries of the whole "recognizable states" rule. For example, Bosnia before the ottomans was more or less a minor Serbian and Croatian state (sorry to any patriotic Bosnians here, it's just what the records show), the Bosniaks are not really mentioned as a separate thing until the Ottoman conquest when they are defined as different by the fact that they are Muslim. Either way, looking at older ethnographic maps, no ottomans means no recognizable borders for a Bosnian state (and in my opinion, no sustainably sized Bosnian state), the Bosnian Kingdom is unlikely to last long assuming Serbia continues to exist. OTL Northern Macedonia is a product of the specific situation that built up to the Balkan wars. If Serbia had other places to expand to, Macedonia would probably be Bulgarian with the exception of the Serbian Northeast and maybe Albania getting a chunk of the west. Hell, Macedonia could end up being Greek depending on the POD of a no-ottos TL. With certain PODs, Albania might not exist either. For the sake of the smaller Balkan states, I avoided deviating too much from our timeline, which meant sticking to more recent history.

Fair enough points! I wouldn't personally discount the existence of Bosnia without the lack of the Ottomans, since if Montenegro can achieve its own identity despite basically being a Serbian state (and even expand, if we consider Old Herzegovina, the region, being Montenegrin now), Bosnia can do the same. The situation with Northern Macedonia would absolutely be different though, I agree. Heck, as another change if we consider my Skoplje suggestion, we might see a far larger Serbian population due to the migration southwards to the capital, which would influence the culture of the other Macedonian Slavs. With Albania, I also wouldn't personally discount it, but it would significantly impact the spread of its diaspora for sure, since while there was migration into the hinterland during the Medieval period, without the Ottomans we wouldn't see nearly the same sort of populating of western Northern Macedonia and former Serbian core Kosovo and Metohija. Hell, in their place, we might see the Aromanians rise in those regions instead, since Moscopole especially wouldn't have faced the same decline they did OTL (though that's not to say something similar wouldn't occur TTL).

Still, fair enough when it comes to avoiding too many deviations!

However, I see those links in your description and will be sure to check them out. Serbia is rarely discussed here and I'm all for underused scenarios, especially anything to do with Serbs and South Slavs in general (I have yet to write any South Slavic stuff myself though since I'm still putting off continuing my Korean TL).

Much appreciated, especially the likes! I myself haven't written any proper timelines, at most having created (if I myself may say so) some nice enough looking infoboxes, providing some commentary for South Slavic and early Cyrillic stuff in timelines and discussion threads, and contributing to the absolutely wonderful "Hail, Britannia" timeline by LeinadB93.
 
Portugal capital Rio de Janeiro (Brazil does not secede from Portugal and the Royal Family stays there) would be interesting.

But as for the proposed Europe:
Spain capital Lisbon (ITTL Portugal and Spain remain united)
England capital York (the court moved there after the invassion of the Spanish Armada and never returned to London)
Netherlands capital Brussels (Spain granted independence as a catholic nation under an Spanish-Hapsburg king)
France capital Orleans (the court moved there to be farther from the border with the Spanish Flanders, never to return to Paris)
Germany (former HRE) capital Aachen
Italy capital Milan (unification of Italy with Spanish help... Naples, Sicily and Sardinia are still Spanish)
Norway capital Trondheim
Finland capital Turku
Poland capital Krakow
Hungary capital Gyulafehérvár (Alba Iulia)
Greece capital Constantinopolis
Croatia capital Spalato
Turkey capital Konya
 
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