AHC: Alps controlled by one state

With a POD after 476, have a single state control all of the Alps.

It can be any culture you like as long as it's plausible, Swiss, German, Helvetian, French, Frankish, even Roman, whatever.

However, there are two rules:
- it must be landlocked
- it must only control the Alpine regions, not the German plains of Italy, etc

Bonus points for a surviving Romanised state that carries over Roman institutions.
 
With a POD after 476, have a single state control all of the Alps.

It can be any culture you like as long as it's plausible, Swiss, German, Helvetian, French, Frankish, even Roman, whatever.

However, there are two rules:
- it must be landlocked
- it must only control the Alpine regions, not the German plains of Italy, etc

Bonus points for a surviving Romanised state that carries over Roman institutions.

If it was before 476, maybe a romanized Celtic Uber-Norricum.
 
I have trouble considering a state powerful enough to control all of the Alps (and all the passing points) but not powerful enough to control anything out of it.
Also, you need to clarify what you mean by "Alps" :
Is it the full mountain range stretching from Nice to Vienna/Slovenia, or just a part of it ? Cause I don't see how a state could control ALL of the Alps and still be landlocked.
Or maybe you just mean the Central Alps ? In this case it's easier, you just need a Swiss-wank
 
Is it the full mountain range stretching from Nice to Vienna/Slovenia, or just a part of it ? Cause I don't see how a state could control ALL of the Alps and still be landlocked.
I meant the full mountain range, but you do make a compelling point about the ports. How about Genoa, Monaco and/or Nice, since they are closest to the Alpine region?
 
A state controlling all those mountains would be virtually impervious to attack. If also under the control of an important trading empire like Genoa, I can imagine it being rendered as a sort of Shangri-La in the middle of Europe.

With regard to the OP, perhaps a more Alpine-focused Habsburg Austria defeats the Swiss and seizes their lands in their entirety? Being Holy Roman Emperors they might not suffer challenges to the annexation.
 
How about this:
weaknessparameters.jpg


The marked area in the map plus:
- Basel, Zürich and Geneva regions (roughly OTL Swiss borders)
- Torino-Milano-Genova triangle, Monaco and Nice included: access to Mediterranean trade
- Udine and the surrounding regions: important guard against Venice
- Bergamo, Brescia and smaller border cities
- Graz
- Vienna: gateway city from the east, important trading hub
- Munich and Augsburg: northern frontier cities, gateways from the north
- Linz, up to the Danube line: natural defensive line

Such a state would at various points in time could exert influence in the whole of Northern Italy of course, but the general idea is to have these as the core regions over the centuries. All else might come and go and history marches on.

Yes, it would be a great power by default, very rich and very influential, but potentially surrounded by enemies.
 
The other problem I see is the ridge.
Most of the times, mountain were used as borders, because of their convenience for defense, but also because of the problem of communication between both sides.
Would a country of this kind have a feeling of unity despite most of it being isolated valleys not interconnected ?
 
Would a country of this kind have a feeling of unity despite most of it being isolated valleys not interconnected ?
Worked for Switzerland, didn't it?

If they are a Roman remnant state, the institutions and culture could provide some cohesion early on. After all, a large part of Byzantium was scattered islands, but they still had a strong identity.
 
The Swiss system makes sense for such a state too - especially if it is made up of different nationalities. Loosely aligned but within the same overarching state.

My recommendation for ensuring unity however is to ensure that this state controls upto the Danube in the north. That does mean you've got a hilariously mixed up Bavarian-French-Swiss-Italian state, but it would at least guarantee some lowlands to make travel between the different cantons easier.

This would probably be true for all of these states, Swiss or otherwise. In fact, I think it'd be really interesting if we saw a surviving Roman successor state in the region. Just this very densely packed state north of and including the Alps, surrounded by Langobards, Ostrogoths and Allemagni. It might be possible if a Roman general set themselves up there - or an alt-Venice scenario where the populations set themselves up in Alpine communities that later pushed north to gather more usable land.
 
There were indeed long-lived pockets of Romanised people in such mountainous areas, so that isn't so implausible after all.
 
Although the Swiss at their largest extent controlled much of the center of this territory, I discount their chances. Since the west end of the mapped region is basically historical Savoy then perhaps the best shot is for a Savoyard state that conquers Milano, suppresses the Swiss peasant and urban republics, and is able with Milano as a base to grab the Valtellin, Graubünden and Tyrol. I would be willing to accept this as the Alpine hegemon even without Styria and Carinthia since it would control all the passes and their immediate hinterland. The other best bet would be an alt-Habsburg branch that maintains their position in the Swiss Alps and includes Tyrol but not Austria. The natural focus of this branch would then not be on the Danubian areas but on control of the eastern and central passes. To insure this control would require seizing the Valtellin, Graubünden and Milano. The final step would be a typical Habsburg marriage with a single Savoyard heiress who brings in historical Savoy and the Savoyard controlled areas of western Switzerland.
 
Although the Swiss at their largest extent controlled much of the center of this territory, I discount their chances. Since the west end of the mapped region is basically historical Savoy then perhaps the best shot is for a Savoyard state that conquers Milano, suppresses the Swiss peasant and urban republics, and is able with Milano as a base to grab the Valtellin, Graubünden and Tyrol. I would be willing to accept this as the Alpine hegemon even without Styria and Carinthia since it would control all the passes and their immediate hinterland. The other best bet would be an alt-Habsburg branch that maintains their position in the Swiss Alps and includes Tyrol but not Austria. The natural focus of this branch would then not be on the Danubian areas but on control of the eastern and central passes. To insure this control would require seizing the Valtellin, Graubünden and Milano. The final step would be a typical Habsburg marriage with a single Savoyard heiress who brings in historical Savoy and the Savoyard controlled areas of western Switzerland.

My problem with a rather late POD like this is how the HRE reacts to annexations such as this. This is why I believe the turbulent years after the fall of Rome would work out better.
 
Although the Swiss at their largest extent controlled much of the center of this territory, I discount their chances. Since the west end of the mapped region is basically historical Savoy then perhaps the best shot is for a Savoyard state that conquers Milano, suppresses the Swiss peasant and urban republics, and is able with Milano as a base to grab the Valtellin, Graubünden and Tyrol. I would be willing to accept this as the Alpine hegemon even without Styria and Carinthia since it would control all the passes and their immediate hinterland. The other best bet would be an alt-Habsburg branch that maintains their position in the Swiss Alps and includes Tyrol but not Austria. The natural focus of this branch would then not be on the Danubian areas but on control of the eastern and central passes. To insure this control would require seizing the Valtellin, Graubünden and Milano. The final step would be a typical Habsburg marriage with a single Savoyard heiress who brings in historical Savoy and the Savoyard controlled areas of western Switzerland.

Surely there's an even simpler solution to this?

Leave the waging of wars to others! But you, happy Austria, marry; for the Realms which Mars awards to others, Venus transfers to you.

Have Austria inherit Savoy instead of Bohemia-Hungary, and between Further Austria and the existing attempts to regain control over the Swiss from both parties, it's reasonable that they'd be pushing to quash them. Milan was also in and out the Austrian sphere anyway, here it would be a natural extension, provided the French can be kept out.
 
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