AHC: All of Indonesia become densely populated?

[katchen]

Probably the biggest limiting factor i that prevents swampy lowlands in Indonesia that would otherwise become fertile rice basins is the way they turn into peat swamps. This is true over much of Borneo in valleys like the Manakam, around Bandjermasin, the Kapus and around Pontianak , all over Eastern Sumatera along the Straits of Malacca and in much of Papua New Guinea.

These days, farmers simply burn off the peat creating huge fires that pollute the air for months and for miles around but leaving land that is either used for palm oil plantations or rice growing. It helped that during the 1990s the Southern Oscillation (El Nino) created a huge drought across Indonesia that drued out the peat forest and made those fires possible.

Would it have been beyond traditional farmers to figure out how to burn off peatlands and reclaim those lands for rice growing?

 

[Theodoric]

Why couldn't my alternate New Guineans simply take the place of the Austronesians in developing Maritime Southeast Asia? After all, New Guinea is far closer than Taiwan...

New Guinea isn't a good place to start an empire. It's barely a decent place to start a province.

 

[Ridwan Asher]

Would potatos being introduced do something about that? I know in a lot of cases across Europe and Asia the introduction of the potato caused the more rugged marginal land to experience a population explosion, could that happen here?

Potatoes perform poorly in Kalimantan.

Ridwan Asher: I am not clear about what you are trying to say; if you are talking about back when I was on the board before, I have long since forgotten about it.

A while ago I posted a thread in this forum about WI Indonesian archipelago developed state-level society indigenously.

Why couldn't my alternate New Guineans simply take the place of the Austronesians in developing Maritime Southeast Asia? After all, New Guinea is far closer than Taiwan...

I think Austronesian invasion will still happen. So instead, we'll get western and central Indonesia islands invaded by two expansive sophisticated cultures instead of just one.

 

[Ridwan Asher]

New Guinea isn't a good place to start an empire. It's barely a decent place to start a province.

Rather then a spanning empire, I think the expansion will be more in the manner of Austronesian migration of OTL.

 

[Flocculencio]

Would potatos being introduced do something about that? I know in a lot of cases across Europe and Asia the introduction of the potato caused the more rugged marginal land to experience a population explosion, could that happen here?

Yes but again that did happen IOTL and the climate isn't always that suitable for them

I think a lot of you guys don't quite get how rugged the interiors of the Indonesian islands can be- its not a situation like the Papuan highlands where you have a fringe of rugged mountains surrounding relatively cultivable plateaus. In places like the interior of Borneo it's just jagged ridges and hills covered in rainforest

 

[Oba]

New Guinea isn't a good place to start an empire. It's barely a decent place to start a province.

I disagree and I cite the rugged Andes once more; also, have a look at the Kingdom of Kongo, an empire in all but name, the far more isolated yet nonetheless stunning city of Nan Madol on Pohnpei, isolated, cold and resource-poor Britain and the rich and developed ancient history of dry and mountainous Ethiopia, home to the longest-lasting dynasty in the history of hereditary monarchies.

 

[Oba]

Probably the biggest limiting factor i that prevents swampy lowlands in Indonesia that would otherwise become fertile rice basins is the way they turn into peat swamps. This is true over much of Borneo in valleys like the Manakam, around Bandjermasin, the Kapus and around Pontianak , all over Eastern Sumatera along the Straits of Malacca and in much of Papua New Guinea.

These days, farmers simply burn off the peat creating huge fires that pollute the air for months and for miles around but leaving land that is either used for palm oil plantations or rice growing. It helped that during the 1990s the Southern Oscillation (El Nino) created a huge drought across Indonesia that drued out the peat forest and made those fires possible.

Would it have been beyond traditional farmers to figure out how to burn off peatlands and reclaim those lands for rice growing?

Good thoughts on the swamp forests but, IMHO, a simpler solution than draining would be to use the peat in those forests as the basis for terra preta, as occurred in OTL Amazonia, and then use the resultant fertile swamps to grow water-loving plants such as the staple crop of taro which comes from New Guinea.

 

[katchen]

I think Terra Preta is an excellent idea, and may well be how rice cultivation in Asia got started. One way I could see the Indonesian island developing a denser population would be if the Han Dynasty had built a navy to combat piracy in the South China Sea and put commandieries On Taiwan, Luzon and possibly Palawan and North Borneo. Chinese norms of civilization would penetrate to the people of places like Tondo, much as they did Korea and Chinese style dynasties could arise in the Philippines(which are compact ) the way they did in Korea and Japan during the Six Dynasty Period, gradually extending down to Borneo, Celebes and Moluccas as an Empire before bumping up against Srivijaya and Mohajapit.. Finally, they would reach New Guinea and the North Coast of Australia.
Indonesia would thus be civilized from two directions, West from India and North from China.

 

[kasumigenx]

I think Terra Preta is an excellent idea, and may well be how rice cultivation in Asia got started. One way I could see the Indonesian island developing a denser population would be if the Han Dynasty had built a navy to combat piracy in the South China Sea and put commandieries On Taiwan, Luzon and possibly Palawan and North Borneo. Chinese norms of civilization would penetrate to the people of places like Tondo, much as they did Korea and Chinese style dynasties could arise in the Philippines(which are compact ) the way they did in Korea and Japan during the Six Dynasty Period, gradually extending down to Borneo, Celebes and Moluccas as an Empire before bumping up against Srivijaya and Mohajapit.. Finally, they would reach New Guinea and the North Coast of Australia.
Indonesia would thus be civilized from two directions, West from India and North from China.

I think Tondo/Selurong/Mayi could give up Manila to China perhaps as a commandery or outpost since it was claimed by Brunei and Majapahit which caused them alot of conflict since Majapahit and Brunei wanted to tap trade with China.

 

[King Helü of Wu]

Good thoughts on the swamp forests but, IMHO, a simpler solution than draining would be to use the peat in those forests as the basis for terra preta, as occurred in OTL Amazonia, and then use the resultant fertile swamps to grow water-loving plants such as the staple crop of taro which comes from New Guinea.

How should the technology reach Indonesia?

Some Portugese captain decided to bring an Indian prisoner with him to the east indies, who happen to know how to to make terra preta?

 

[Flocculencio]

How should the technology reach Indonesia?

Some Portugese captain decided to bring an Indian prisoner with him to the east indies, who happen to know how to to make terra preta?

Probably a much easier POD is to simply have the concept develop independently in SE Asia