AHC: African Mexico

Make Mexico African. This can be culturally, linguistically, religiously, ethnically, or any other interpretation, and it can happen in any way.
 

scholar

Banned
Make Mexico African. This can be culturally, linguistically, religiously, ethnically, or any other interpretation, and it can happen in any way.
Mexico is conquered by Arab-Berbers from Morocco and settled by it instead of the Spaniards.
 

Wolfpaw

Banned
Mexico is conquered by Arab-Berbers from Morocco and settled by it instead of the Spaniards.
This raises an important question; what do we mean by "African?"

Do we mean all of Africa, because that includes a sizable chunk of the Arab World. Or by "African" do we mean "Sub-Saharan?"
 
This raises an important question; what do we mean by "African?"

Do we mean all of Africa, because that includes a sizable chunk of the Arab World. Or by "African" do we mean "Sub-Saharan?"

All of Africa, even Arabic and Austronesian parts.
 
Mexico could have a slave economy that makes the CSA look like a former slave's paradise, leading to African slaves not only outnumbering freedmen, but becoming the vast majority. this leads to a slave revolt
 
Mexico could have a slave economy that makes the CSA look like a former slave's paradise, leading to African slaves not only outnumbering freedmen, but becoming the vast majority. this leads to a slave revolt
Would the slaveholders be both criollo and mestizo?

What would happen to the indios?
 
It doesn't need to be an Islamic conquest--there could easily be an early intervention from one of the powerful Sahelian negro empires such as Ghana, Mali or Songhai. They could have crossed the Atlantic--perhaps on a journey of exploration to expand their trade--and encountered the Aztecs or their predecessors between, say, 600 AD-1300 AD.:)
 
Mexico could have a slave economy that makes the CSA look like a former slave's paradise, leading to African slaves not only outnumbering freedmen, but becoming the vast majority. this leads to a slave revolt

Well, Mexico has neither the Soil or climate for any large scale slave-driven agricultural economy in the North, and the South is already densely populated with 'Cheap' labor in the form of Natives, even after the plagues. Though African were imported for mining, the use of them declined after the 1640s. Unless they make it to California/Texas earlier where Plantation slavery is feasible, then African Slavery for Mexico declines as OTL.

I severely doubt all of Mexico can become 'African'...But perhaps more a much less 'able' New Spanish Government, and Crypto-Muslims/Cimarroons/Mulattos flee North and link up with tough nuts to crack, like the Pueblo.
 
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I don't really like the options of having African powers colonize American possessions large scale, mostly because I know very little about their capabilities to do so, and I'm pretty skeptical of pre-Colombian African imperialism/colonization in AH.

So that would mean we'd have to find a way for it to make the most sense to Spain (or whatever European power colonizes Mesoamerica) to bring in slaves as labor, in enough quantity that they become the majority, which would probably also require drastic decreases in the indigenous population. Tricky.

I'll post in earnest later.
 
It doesn't need to be an Islamic conquest--there could easily be an early intervention from one of the powerful Sahelian negro empires such as Ghana, Mali or Songhai. They could have crossed the Atlantic--perhaps on a journey of exploration to expand their trade--and encountered the Aztecs or their predecessors between, say, 600 AD-1300 AD.:)

One of my first threads here was actually "WI the Malians reached America".
 
It's not unfeasible with Spanish administration. Just make a scenario were the Leyes Nuevas are enforced in the Spanish Empire and most of the American mines would be empty and the Amerindians would be replaced by African slaves, just like Brazilian mines in OTL. Demographically, Mexico would look like much more like Brazil or Cuba, but that wouldn't be a change.

Altough, with the Leyes Nueves we would have a massive number of unassimilated Indians mostly under influence of the religious orders, an explosive combination, I think.
 
Its definitely feasible to have African's doing the conquest if you butterfly away powerful European powers. The first way is have the black plague end up much, much worse. This can be done by getting ride of its first appearance in 542, or messing with the bacteria.
Secondly, you could butterfly away spain. Have the moors get ride of the resistance after they establish Al-Adonis, or have them beat the Franks through an act of god and establish one or several western European caliphates.

Although, with the way that African societies functioned, what you might see is a mesoamericanizing of the western african coast, rathern than an africanizing of the new world. They took slaves as spoils in war rather than land, and had a much more intrinsic tie to their homeland.
 

Kaptin Kurk

Banned
Yeah, since 99.999999999999999999999999999999999999% of history is pre-1900, the possibilities are almost limitless, unless you're a Calvanists. :D

Anyways, if we through out Guns, Germs, and Steel type alterations (changing the domesticable animals and grains of Africa) and assume Europe still lucks out like it did historically, you're probably talking about a Mexico (and an Americas) in which the initial contact between Europeans and Native Americans is even more deadly biologically than it OTL was.

Africans were imported into Mexico and other regions of Central and South America as forced labor like in the North, and Carribbean. But basically, Africanized America is basically regions where the natives did exceptionally poorly. Where enough Indians / Native Americans survived to be worked as slaves / peasants, then, there was no need for Africans. (Largely in the South where there were some large precursor native states.)

Where this was not the case, in a Europe dominated world, bring on the enslaved Africans and africanize the area. Anyway, the most likely route to an 'Africanized' mexico is a much worse than OTL depletion of Mexico's native population, either through diseases or genocide, which will pretty much defacto mean a greater import of africans. As it was OTL, the Africans imported into Mexico OTL were simply absorbed genetically into the native and european populations.
 
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