AHC: African aircraft carriers
- Thread starter RogueBeaver
- Start date
nbcman
Donor
Here's a stretch:
What if there was a Anglo-French Union during WW2 which leads to a joint Commonwealth-French West African union of most OTL former French and British colonies in West Africa. They keep a CVL type vessel or three for ASW duties (using S-2 or S-3 fixed wing ASW aircraft) as part of the overall defense of the Atlantic against Soviet subs during the Cold War.
What if there was a Anglo-French Union during WW2 which leads to a joint Commonwealth-French West African union of most OTL former French and British colonies in West Africa. They keep a CVL type vessel or three for ASW duties (using S-2 or S-3 fixed wing ASW aircraft) as part of the overall defense of the Atlantic against Soviet subs during the Cold War.
But most countries don't give their armed forces the mission to be able to strike anyone, anywhere in the world, within 72 hours. In peace time, most countries keep their armed forces at readiness levels (or below such levels) which fluctuate depending on the international situation. So the relative few countries which can afford carriers capable of deploying fixed wing aircraft, work under the premise that they have one or maybe even two carriers, which are operational at the time of the year when they conduct exercises. And in the event of international tensions, then they rush to get it ready to deploy in whatever shape they manage. And that can work as a deterrence because the country they are having tensions with is likely to operate in a similar fashion.
If you have a need for carriers to operate at some distance from home (and if they are operating close use land based air and maybe buy more tankers) and they are tied up or go out a little for short bursts, you now need to get the air wing aboard, get the pilots up to snuff with landings etc, put on all goodies from eggs to bombs aboard, then chug off to where you are needed - remember that while your carrier may be able to do 30+ kts they don't go at that speed all the time, and if the escorts are doing 25kts they burn fuel pretty quickly. If you are doing well you get an SOA of maybe 20 kts - remember you need to deal with wind direction for flight ops which may mean deviating from your course. So if you are lucky, once you finally get underway to where you want to go, and don't forget the getting ready to go period of anywhere from 10 days to a month, you now are progressing towards where you are needed at perhaps 250nm/day. How far away is your AO?
This is why countries who really need and can afford carriers, as opposed to carriers to emphasize penile size, strive to have 2-3 at a minimum so they can have one handy when they need it.
This is why countries who really need and can afford carriers, as opposed to carriers to emphasize penile size, strive to have 2-3 at a minimum so they can have one handy when they need it.
If South Africa had a carrier, wanted to join the coalition in the (first) Gulf War and send the carrier, that means the carrier would be in the Persian Gulf about 20 days after it departed South Africa. It took months for the coalition to gather its forces, so 20 days to the Gulf sounds good enough
When they can, but they also have to face significant periods where she's in dock and can't be used with nothing to replace her no matter what happens globally...
Yeah, but they still only have one carrier. Granted they have the benefit of training their pilots with the USN when the CDG is in the yard http://www.dailypress.com/news/military/dp-nws-french-pilots-arriving-20180327-story.html but my point is to counter the mentality that for a country to have a carrier, they have to have 2 or 3. The fact is, over the past several decades a lot of countries with carriers have had one carrier navies. Any African country that decided to try and operate a carrier (South Africa for example) would have most likely been one of those navies and it would have hardly made them an outlier.
https://news.usni.org/2015/01/07/french-carrier-deploy-indian-ocean-join-isis-fight
It goes to the Indian Ocean on at least a semi-regular basis.
No they aren't, the proposed CVF variant was cancelled and there's nothing on the books until CdeG starts hitting End of Life I thought?
According to their 2013 White Paper, the project was officially cancelled:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_French_White_Paper_on_Defence_and_National_Security
*UK and Germany divide Portuguese Africa shortly before WWI
*South Africa goes full-on nuts and decides to directly annex SW Africa after WWI followed by southern Mozambique. Rhodesia, Botswana, Swaziland, Lesotho, and southern Angola follow.
*South Africa begins to become a bit of a pariah, Egypt uses opportunity to begin making inroads for an (African) pan-Arab state.
*By 1950 South Africa has united much of the southern continent while Egypt dominates a bloc in the north. Though no common border exists until 1971, arms development including crude carrier manufacturing techniques are investigated.
*Pan-African war in 1969 sees carrier battle off the coast of Tanzania followed by another near Kamerun. Eastern one won by Egypt-backed US Africa forces, western by Union of Southern African States.
*South Africa goes full-on nuts and decides to directly annex SW Africa after WWI followed by southern Mozambique. Rhodesia, Botswana, Swaziland, Lesotho, and southern Angola follow.
*South Africa begins to become a bit of a pariah, Egypt uses opportunity to begin making inroads for an (African) pan-Arab state.
*By 1950 South Africa has united much of the southern continent while Egypt dominates a bloc in the north. Though no common border exists until 1971, arms development including crude carrier manufacturing techniques are investigated.
*Pan-African war in 1969 sees carrier battle off the coast of Tanzania followed by another near Kamerun. Eastern one won by Egypt-backed US Africa forces, western by Union of Southern African States.
Most likely scenario: In WWII a massively bigger involvement from South Africa in the European and Pacific war. SA becomes a fixed commonwealth asset en par with Australia, or at least New Zealand. Commonwealth relies on SA navy to guard the Cape and in response it gets the first choice when the Colossus class aircraft carriers are phased out.
Of course, even before Apartheid became the law of the land, South Africa was still a white colony, even if it was de facto independent. So don't expect any naval aviators called Mzuma landing on that carrier anytime soon.
Of course, even before Apartheid became the law of the land, South Africa was still a white colony, even if it was de facto independent. So don't expect any naval aviators called Mzuma landing on that carrier anytime soon.
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right up until shes in dry dock for a refit and some incident happens in an unspecified middle eastern country...............................
On another level: I made a scenario for an alternative history modeling site once where Belgium took over a Seattle-built escort carrier from the British after WWII and sailed it up the Congo river to use as a mobile airfield for their Colonial Army. The biggest aircraft ever to land on it would be the AT-6 Harvards from the Air Force flying school in Kinshasa. Typically its contingent consisted out of Piper Cups from the Colonial Police, a pair of De Havilland Otters jury-rigged as pesticide dusters for water Lilly extermination duties and a mix of various helicopters. Next to the infamous water Lilly dusting, the most common tasks performed were river survey, flood patrols and medevac duties.
For a second - or third if you count the years on Atlantic convoy duty for the British- act, the ship had one last shot of glory in 1960
when the Congolese independence war got hairy, the craft, then already 20 years old proved its worth mostly because it's a lot harder to sneak up to a ship in the middle of the river then to an airfield bounded by jungle. By that time however its engines were degraded to the point of uselessness and eventually the ship was scuttled at its last mooring place rather then tow it back to Kinshasa or Belgium.
For a second - or third if you count the years on Atlantic convoy duty for the British- act, the ship had one last shot of glory in 1960
when the Congolese independence war got hairy, the craft, then already 20 years old proved its worth mostly because it's a lot harder to sneak up to a ship in the middle of the river then to an airfield bounded by jungle. By that time however its engines were degraded to the point of uselessness and eventually the ship was scuttled at its last mooring place rather then tow it back to Kinshasa or Belgium.
Yes, but only the USA wants to be ready to scramble its armed forces any time there is an incident in an unspecified middle eastern country. Every country has global concerns, but few have the military and diplomatic power to intervene anywhere in the world. In other words, out of 200-odd countries, only one expends a shitload of money in being capable of intervening anywhere. All the other 200 countries have the armed services they can and are willing to afford in order to protect the interests they can protect.
For instance, when Saudi Arabia blockaded Qatar last year, there was probably a meeting in the South African foreign affairs ministry to evaluate scenarios and analyze how tensions between those two countries could affect South Africa. There was a similar meeting in the USA department of State. The US government might have considered deploying a carrier to the area or putting existing forces in the area in higher alert. Carrier or no carrier, the South African government was not going to be sending its navy to the strait of Hormuz to enforce its interests in the area, which is why they don't need to have a carrier on alert 24/7.
And if a more critical crisis was to happen, that's when intelligence services attempt to find out potential diplomatic issues in advance, then diplomats stall and try to find a non violent solution. And while all that happen and civilian officers gain time, the armed forces are mobilized. But, you could say, what happens if country A has to react to country B, which has already mobilized? Well, mobilizations take time and are noticeable - that's when spies and diplomat come into play long before shots are fired, or even threatened to be fired.
Barry Bull
Donor
France has a lot of interest and military deployment in Africa, Indian Ocean and Pacific Ocean.
https://worldview.stratfor.com/article/theres-no-easy-way-out-africa-french-forces
Also, all 3 retired French carriers/ aviation cruiser had operated outside the Med.