TFSmith121
Banned
California and the other US states and territories mobilized
California and the other US states and territories on the Pacific Slope mobilized 20,000 men, 17,000 long-service US Volunteers (3 year term of service) and (at least) 3,000 California state troops in 1861-65, and the prewar garrison included the whole of the regular 9th Infantry and five batteries of regular artillery that never left the theater. That's available (as has been linked) from the California state military museum website and the OR and Dyer's Compendium, and does not, of course, include the USN, USMC, and USRCS personnel on the Pacific coast.
And the above is in a theater where the only need is for garrison and security forces; rather different in an Anglo-American war scenario.
There's no threat to Vancouver of an overland march from the US; what there is are more than enough personnel (army and navy) to defend San Francisco Bay (home of the Benicia Arsenal, Mare Island Navy Yard, and Union Iron Works, among other industrial facilities) from anything the British could rationally deploy in the eastern Pacific in the first 12 months of any putative Anglo-American conflict that begins in the winter of 1861-62.
As far as the demographics of California goes in 1860, the electorate numbered 130,000, of which 50,000 were from northern states, 30,000 from southern states, and 50 naturalized foreign born, mostly Irish/British and German. And of the 30,000 southern-born citizens, a grand total of 21 actually bothered to up stakes and head "home" to fight (and, presumably, risk dying) whilst wearing grey. 20,000 is to 21, hum, let's see, about 950 to 1?
Commerce raiders in 1861 going against the vast majority of British flag merchant shipping in the Pacific would need small arms and a bow chaser, presumably, since the typical British-flag sailing vessel or merchant steamer would have neither. The crews would come from the merchant service (there was a substantial US-flag merchant fleet in the Pacific by the 1860s, since the passage by sea from Panama to California and points north was by sea, as well as the China trade and American whaling fleet), with officers and men commissioned as Naval Volunteers (which is how the USN expanded during the war, historically) and with some officers seconded from the USN and USRCS, off the beach, and/or foreign volunteers.
As was stated in BROS, there are/were (at least) 17 ocean-going US-flag sidewheel steamers with auxiliary sailing rigs available on the US Pacific coast in the winter of 1861-62, plus at least 2-3 second-line commissioned warships with reasonable capabilities as commerce raiders, and NOT including the modern steamers in the USN's Pacific Squadron; considering how much trouble the RN and the Allies had with a half dozen German commerce raiders in the Pacific in 1914, the strategic and operational problems for the British Pacific, China, and Australian squadrons is self-evident. Shipping routes would be from Cape Horn north to Victoria (Vancouver Island) and various points in the Antipodes to China and vice-versa, and all of the above through the East Indies to the Indian Ocean. And whatever remained of the British Pacific whaling fleet, presumably. So, plenty of targets that can be picked off, and so require convoying, escorts, raider hunters, dispatch vessels, station/guard ships anywhere important where there isn't a local garrison with shore batteries, etc. All of which will soak up the RN steamers (frigates, corvettes, sloops, gunboats) on station in 1861-62 in a matter of days, once the balloon goes up, not to mention shelling the occasional recalcitrant Chinese or Japanese or Korean village, or what have you...
So, yeah, the RN is not going to steam unopposed into San Francisco Bay on Day One or any other day, once the balloon goes up, with what the British actually had on station in the winter of 1861-62, anymore than they did against Petropavlovsk in 1854 or the Taku Forts in 1859. The 1860 Allied expedition against the Forts required a year's preparation and 18,000 British and French troops. Good luck scaring them up in the winter of 1861-62 for IMPERIAL STORM, Pacific Edition.
They didn't exist - not in the Pacific and free of such minor entanglements as the Maori in New Zealand and the Taipings in China.
Best,
That interesting but irrelevant. Those people managed to mobilise what 8k troops for the ACW plus militia unable to move more than a couple of days from the farm. So slightly fewer than the State of Victoria, and of mixed origin. Not sure about 1860 but 1848/9 about half were UK born ( thats UK not Ireland btw). Commerce raiders need, guns powder, crews, bases coal Guns. Where is the California gunwharf? And for that matter where is the UK trade to raid? Reality is they mobilised as a deployable force at most 8k at any one time. the threat is an 8,000 man force attempting to march 800 miles from San Fran to Vancouver.
California and the other US states and territories on the Pacific Slope mobilized 20,000 men, 17,000 long-service US Volunteers (3 year term of service) and (at least) 3,000 California state troops in 1861-65, and the prewar garrison included the whole of the regular 9th Infantry and five batteries of regular artillery that never left the theater. That's available (as has been linked) from the California state military museum website and the OR and Dyer's Compendium, and does not, of course, include the USN, USMC, and USRCS personnel on the Pacific coast.
And the above is in a theater where the only need is for garrison and security forces; rather different in an Anglo-American war scenario.
There's no threat to Vancouver of an overland march from the US; what there is are more than enough personnel (army and navy) to defend San Francisco Bay (home of the Benicia Arsenal, Mare Island Navy Yard, and Union Iron Works, among other industrial facilities) from anything the British could rationally deploy in the eastern Pacific in the first 12 months of any putative Anglo-American conflict that begins in the winter of 1861-62.
As far as the demographics of California goes in 1860, the electorate numbered 130,000, of which 50,000 were from northern states, 30,000 from southern states, and 50 naturalized foreign born, mostly Irish/British and German. And of the 30,000 southern-born citizens, a grand total of 21 actually bothered to up stakes and head "home" to fight (and, presumably, risk dying) whilst wearing grey. 20,000 is to 21, hum, let's see, about 950 to 1?
Commerce raiders in 1861 going against the vast majority of British flag merchant shipping in the Pacific would need small arms and a bow chaser, presumably, since the typical British-flag sailing vessel or merchant steamer would have neither. The crews would come from the merchant service (there was a substantial US-flag merchant fleet in the Pacific by the 1860s, since the passage by sea from Panama to California and points north was by sea, as well as the China trade and American whaling fleet), with officers and men commissioned as Naval Volunteers (which is how the USN expanded during the war, historically) and with some officers seconded from the USN and USRCS, off the beach, and/or foreign volunteers.
As was stated in BROS, there are/were (at least) 17 ocean-going US-flag sidewheel steamers with auxiliary sailing rigs available on the US Pacific coast in the winter of 1861-62, plus at least 2-3 second-line commissioned warships with reasonable capabilities as commerce raiders, and NOT including the modern steamers in the USN's Pacific Squadron; considering how much trouble the RN and the Allies had with a half dozen German commerce raiders in the Pacific in 1914, the strategic and operational problems for the British Pacific, China, and Australian squadrons is self-evident. Shipping routes would be from Cape Horn north to Victoria (Vancouver Island) and various points in the Antipodes to China and vice-versa, and all of the above through the East Indies to the Indian Ocean. And whatever remained of the British Pacific whaling fleet, presumably. So, plenty of targets that can be picked off, and so require convoying, escorts, raider hunters, dispatch vessels, station/guard ships anywhere important where there isn't a local garrison with shore batteries, etc. All of which will soak up the RN steamers (frigates, corvettes, sloops, gunboats) on station in 1861-62 in a matter of days, once the balloon goes up, not to mention shelling the occasional recalcitrant Chinese or Japanese or Korean village, or what have you...
So, yeah, the RN is not going to steam unopposed into San Francisco Bay on Day One or any other day, once the balloon goes up, with what the British actually had on station in the winter of 1861-62, anymore than they did against Petropavlovsk in 1854 or the Taku Forts in 1859. The 1860 Allied expedition against the Forts required a year's preparation and 18,000 British and French troops. Good luck scaring them up in the winter of 1861-62 for IMPERIAL STORM, Pacific Edition.
They didn't exist - not in the Pacific and free of such minor entanglements as the Maori in New Zealand and the Taipings in China.
Best,
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