Germanophile
Banned
Make a POD before 500 AD that would result in a relatively united western and central Europe (Excluding the British islands).
AHC-a united Europe
- Thread starter Germanophile
- Start date
What about a total Frankwank (
) that lasts long enough to establish some idea of a united Frankish Roman Empire? Christian Universalism in practice rather than theory? The HRE without the OTL triple-irony, basically.
) that lasts long enough to establish some idea of a united Frankish Roman Empire? Christian Universalism in practice rather than theory? The HRE without the OTL triple-irony, basically.Well, with such an early POD it's always hard to guage plausibility, but for my idea you might need a lot of luck and probably a drastic change in Frankish inheritance. Hmmm...maybe a POD where another one of Big Chucky's sons survives to claim the whole empire rather than Louis the Pious. ITTL this son is a more competent and politically shrewd leader and keeps most of the Empire together and, adopting Roman ideas towards inheritance rather than Frankish, passes it off to a single son. Alpine Handwavium mines are found and the empire lives on as a Catholic inheritor of the WRE and rival/counterbalance to Byzantium. Howaboutthat?
von kressenstein
Banned
before 500 ad? and its not Rome? not gonna happen unless the Visigoths wank considerably, or have Attila actually conquer Rome and proclaim himself emperor, but after his death what happens to Rome?
Lots of mitigating factors here, Massive migrations taking place during the 300 and 400's and constant warefare amongst everyone. before 500 AD i would throw my hat in the Visigoth ring. just not sure how to make that part happen
now if we move out just a bit.. Charlemagne would be a good bet, especially if he doesn't divvy up his kingdom to his sons and can centralize the power into a strong hereditary kingdom then that could be the making of United Europe
Lots of mitigating factors here, Massive migrations taking place during the 300 and 400's and constant warefare amongst everyone. before 500 AD i would throw my hat in the Visigoth ring. just not sure how to make that part happen
now if we move out just a bit.. Charlemagne would be a good bet, especially if he doesn't divvy up his kingdom to his sons and can centralize the power into a strong hereditary kingdom then that could be the making of United Europe
Germanophile
Banned
sound great.If the Frankish would have managed to keep their kingdom intact we could have seen a whole new brave western Europe.
Germanophile
Banned
The Dniester-Vitsula is an ideal site for a defensive line but so is the Danube.Maybe if the Roman had won Teutbrug forest they would have to settle on the Dniester-Vitsula line and establish protectorates on the other bank of the river.
Germanophile
Banned
Well,it could be Rome,it could also be a Greece wank as long as it is plausible and before 500 AD.
von kressenstein
Banned
only problem if it is Greek ( and not Eastern Empire ) that is way to much area to control.. heck half the time i don't know how Rome held it together the way they did.
But early Greek, Just too much area for them to deal with I would say.. plus they went in the wrong direction!
.. actually they went in the correct direction since that is where all the wealth was located.Carthage might be a possibility though.
loughery111
Banned
Rome needs two things to hold together... it needs a frontier on the Oder rather than the Rhine, and it needs to avoid the Crisis of the Third Century that started the entropic processes that ripped it apart in the end. Doing the former will probably butterfly the latter, but a fundamental reform to stabilize succession would be the best POD for both of them.
Germanophile
Banned
only problem if it is Greek ( and not Eastern Empire ) that is way to much area to control.. heck half the time i don't know how Rome held it together the way they did.
But early Greek, Just too much area for them to deal with I would say.. plus they went in the wrong direction!
Carthage might be a possibility though.
Ah,dude.I didn't meant that literally.You just erronomously assumed that i want the POD to be before 500 AD but after the fall of Rome.
Germanophile
Banned
Good ideas everyone.Now let's see if you are able to write a TL based on these ideas.
von kressenstein
Banned
Well if Euric lived say 5 or 10 years longer and seeing the writing on the religious wall converted to Catholicism that may have helped solidify there position in gual, then upon his death and the ascension of Alleric II who i would presume have more time to season himself, might stand a better chance against Clovis, or have Clovis catch a bad case of small pox.
In the long run earlier conversion to Catholicism more then likely would do for the Visigoths what it did for the Salian franks to the north and could help solidify their hold on there territories with the blessing of the old Roman infrastructure. since religion was one of the bigger factors for continued wars against them.
If Alleric is stronger and continues the push northward towards the channel and then to east towards the Rhine at some point you could see a uniting of the Frankish and Visigoth Kingdoms.
In the long run earlier conversion to Catholicism more then likely would do for the Visigoths what it did for the Salian franks to the north and could help solidify their hold on there territories with the blessing of the old Roman infrastructure. since religion was one of the bigger factors for continued wars against them.
If Alleric is stronger and continues the push northward towards the channel and then to east towards the Rhine at some point you could see a uniting of the Frankish and Visigoth Kingdoms.