AHC: A stronger Papal State

Using any POD you can think of that will work, your challenge is to make the Papal States be historically stronger than it was in our history. Bonus points for anyone can manage to come up with a way for the Papal States to gain dominion over all of Italy.
 
Using any POD you can think of that will work, your challenge is to make the Papal States be historically stronger than it was in our history. Bonus points for anyone can manage to come up with a way for the Papal States to gain dominion over all of Italy.

Well IDK about stronger but a way for the Papacy to have a chance at leading the unification and rule of Italy would be during the First Italian War of Independence. Before 1848 Pope Pius IX was a relative liberal who seemed to be a Godsend for Italians who wanted a liberal and united Italy. However, when most Italian States joined together to try and force Austria out of Italy Pius turned face and refused to declare war, going so far as two say that he was opposed to Italian unification and that all god-fearing Italians should forget about the whole think. This proclamation destroyed his popularity in Italy and placed both the Papal States and the Church in firm opposition to much of Italy.

If Pius could instead issue a proclamation supporting the war and the cause of Italian unification it would go a long way farther down the road. The first independence war was lost with or without the Papal States and Two Sicilies, I assume that with the War having papal support King Ferdinand II doesn't back out,but when the next war comes around the door is open to the Pope to lead Italian Unification. I would guess he would create a sort of Italian Confederation under his Presidency, with Venice and Milan revived. Plus with the Pope leading the charge, so to speak, it might help Napoleon III's popularity in both France and Italy. For France he's not helping to deprive the Pope of his temporal Power and for Italy, he's no standing in the way of Italy annexing Rome.
 

Razgriz 2K9

Banned
Not to sound like a shameless promoter, but I did a similar case with Italy in my timeline. In my case however, it was not Pius IX who led the unification efforts due to an unfortunate accident leading to his death in 1855. So it is possible to do it, even without Pius IX.
 
Using any POD you can think of that will work, your challenge is to make the Papal States be historically stronger than it was in our history. Bonus points for anyone can manage to come up with a way for the Papal States to gain dominion over all of Italy.

They become much more of a political body and use religion in order to create puppet states. No one can be coronated without the permission of the Pope. No one can declare a war without the permission of the Pope, and just keep on adding restriction.

Gain social power, rather than physical power.
 
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They become much more of a political body and use religion in order to create puppet states. No one can be coronated without the permission of the Pope. No one can declare a war without the permission of the Pope, and just keep on adding restriction.

Gain social power, rather than physical power.

The problem with this is how will the Church be able to enforce their power effectively? The Church's power in the middle ages was fiarly absolute but as time passes the Church's absolute authority began to decline. Look at the Venetian interdict of 1606 and 1607 as an example. Venetian officials arrested two clerics and refused two either release them or send them to Rome. The Pope responded with the most powerful weapon in his arsenal, the Papal Interdict. It was all powerful in the middle ages but this time it was ignored and the Church in Venice was ordered to continue on as always. This is the best example of what would eventually happen one way or another. Eventually the Various rulers (I'm not sure if you just meant the Italian States or all European rulers) would get fed up with Papal intervention and either start to ignore the Pope or invade Italy or even pull a Henry VIII and completely break away. The crowning and war ideas are good but the problem is the Pope won't always be above the frey. One Pope will eventually favor Spain or France or the Holy Roman Empire at the expense of other States. The pissed off states will start pushing back against the Papacy. If the Pope always (or at least most times) acts neutral and works in everyone's best interests then maybe the Papacy can remain the Arbitrator of Europe and functional head of Christendom. Though how long it will last will depend of the type of Popes and the type of European rulers.
 
not a real papal state, but many soon-to-be-Italian politicians in 1848 really saw the chance of a Federal Italy, divided in three states, with the then-liberal Pius IX as the head of the country. this movement, known as "Neo-Guelfismo", had a moderate support by the liberals, but was staunchly fought by the Republicans and the Mazzinians.

but for a real strong Papal State, the last chances would be around 1600, maybe even before, because the Italian Wars left the Peninsula in such a horrible state that even a bigger Papal State would have been a second rate power when confronted to Spain or France
 
I remember in the history of Spain an event called the "crussade of Barbastro", where a papal army of Italonormans in coallition with Franks and Aragonese, besieged the muslim city of Barbastro until it surrendered under terms... surrender that was quickly followed by the slaughter of the population of that city. That was the only result of the first and only adventure of the papal forces in the Iberian peninsule.

If somebody could come up with a better result in this first expedition, probably chosing a better target (maybe starting with the Balearic islands, which were easily accessible by the Italonormans), coupled with a harder sell of the Donation of Constantine... maybe there is a way for the papal states to carve territory from the muslim Hispania (shouldn't be hard in the era of the first taifas).
 
not a real papal state, but many soon-to-be-Italian politicians in 1848 really saw the chance of a Federal Italy, divided in three states, with the then-liberal Pius IX as the head of the country. this movement, known as "Neo-Guelfismo", had a moderate support by the liberals, but was staunchly fought by the Republicans and the Mazzinians.

but for a real strong Papal State, the last chances would be around 1600, maybe even before, because the Italian Wars left the Peninsula in such a horrible state that even a bigger Papal State would have been a second rate power when confronted to Spain or France

The Neo-Guelfismo sounds similar to what I brought up earlier. I'd imagine it would be similar to the German Empire, with the Pope becoming King of Italy and functioning a a "first among equals"similar to the German Emperor.

As for a Stronger Papal State, what if the Papacy can avoid getting intangled in the costly Italian wars? I'm not saying that it could avoid the wars altogether but what if the Papacy remained neutral? After the wars are all said and done, could the Papacy emerge as a sort of Home-grown ruler to lead all of Italy, like an Italian League? I know its a stretch but its the only thing I can think of. I mean the main problem the Papal States had was that there was no military besides a few irregulars and the Swiss Guard. Perhaps the Church could introduce some kind of compulsory service? Like all sons of the Church need to serve in Christs army or something like that? Maybe it develops out of the Crusades and contines on after they end.
 
The Neo-Guelfismo sounds similar to what I brought up earlier. I'd imagine it would be similar to the German Empire, with the Pope becoming King of Italy and functioning a a "first among equals"similar to the German Emperor.

As for a Stronger Papal State, what if the Papacy can avoid getting intangled in the costly Italian wars? I'm not saying that it could avoid the wars altogether but what if the Papacy remained neutral? After the wars are all said and done, could the Papacy emerge as a sort of Home-grown ruler to lead all of Italy, like an Italian League? I know its a stretch but its the only thing I can think of. I mean the main problem the Papal States had was that there was no military besides a few irregulars and the Swiss Guard. Perhaps the Church could introduce some kind of compulsory service? Like all sons of the Church need to serve in Christs army or something like that? Maybe it develops out of the Crusades and contines on after they end.

the problem of a Papal neutrality is that the State was right in the middle of the Peninsula and therefore a neutrality, if only for logistic's sake, was almost impossible to achieve. and when you have a war for who the ruler of Italy will be, it seems at least strange to me that after so many years France and Spain just say "ok, enough with this shit, let's make italy a federation led by the pope"
 
the problem of a Papal neutrality is that the State was right in the middle of the Peninsula and therefore a neutrality, if only for logistic's sake, was almost impossible to achieve. and when you have a war for who the ruler of Italy will be, it seems at least strange to me that after so many years France and Spain just say "ok, enough with this shit, let's make italy a federation led by the pope"

Yeah I know realy out of left field but its the best I could come up with. That or the army of Christ idea I had. The best thing would be for Charles VIII not to invade Italy in the first place. That's what kicked off the Italian wars in the first place. I know that he was heavily encouraged by Duke Ludovico Sforza, so perhaps he (Sforza) could die early, allowing the rightful heir, Gian Galeazzo Sforza, to rule and stopping Italian encouragement from reaching Charles.
 
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