AHC: A Second Islamic Golden Age

SonOfSharknado

Banned
About as straightforward as the thread title itself, can you create a second Islamic Golden Age in the 20th/21st Century? For those not entirely in the know, "The Islamic Golden Age was a period of cultural, economic and scientific flourishing in the history of Islam, traditionally dated from the 8th century to the 14th century. This period is traditionally understood to have begun during the reign of the Abbasid caliph Harun al-Rashid (786 to 809) with the inauguration of the House of Wisdom in Baghdad, where scholars from various parts of the world with different cultural backgrounds were mandated to gather and translate all of the world's classical knowledge into the Arabic language. This period is traditionally said to have ended with the collapse of the Abbasid caliphate due to Mongol invasions and the Siege of Baghdad in 1258 AD. Some scholars date the end of the golden age around 1050 AD, while a few contemporary scholars place the end of the Islamic Golden Age as late as the end of the 15th to 16th centuries. (The medieval period of Islam is very similar if not the same, with one source defining it as 900-1300 CE.)"

So yeah, is it possible to create a comparable period in the last century? Maybe without America bombing/CIA-ing the absolute BeJesus out of the Middle East?
 
lerk

lerk

Restore the Caliphate? If you get an Islamic "central state" to emerge, where Muslims from all around the world come to study, where most Muslims view the leader of said state as their leader, then perhaps a Second Islamic Golden Age becomes more of a possibility.

Much of OTL Islamism is based on restoring the Caliphate, so perhaps you might see a different form of Islamism emerge.
 

Eldritch Po l i t b u ro

Alter events in the 1940s/ 1950s/ 1960s so that pan-Arabism essentially succeeds in unifying much of the Arab world into one super state by the 1970s (or two or three closely affiliated sub-regional mega states), with perhaps only a handful of insignificant western backed monarchical holdouts. Secular government and media combined with socialistic economic planning (not to mention some helpful Soviet and/ or PRC economic aid) result in enormous progress with literacy and education rates. Soviet bloc weaponry and advisers bolster the united Arab world's defensive capabilities. This proves enough to fend the West off from launching wars for the resources beneath the ground. This extended period of peace provides the space for cultural arts to thrive. By the end of the century, the Arab world is an equal of OTL India and the PRC economically and positioned to outpace them within a decade or so. By 2020, scientific advances and world-popular cultural production begin to emerge from the Arab super state on a regular basis and at an increasingly frequent pace...
 
lerk

lerk

couldawouldashoulda said:
Alter events in the 1940s/ 1950s/ 1960s so that pan-Arabism essentially succeeds in unifying much of the Arab world into one super state by the 1970s (or two or three closely affiliated sub-regional mega states), with perhaps only a handful of insignificant western backed monarchical holdouts. Secular government and media combined with socialistic economic planning (not to mention some helpful Soviet and/ or PRC economic aid) result in enormous progress with literacy and education rates. Soviet bloc weaponry and advisers bolster the united Arab world's defensive capabilities. This proves enough to fend the West off from launching wars for the resources beneath the ground. This extended period of peace provides the space for cultural arts to thrive. By the end of the century, the Arab world is an equal of OTL India and the PRC economically and positioned to outpace them within a decade or so. By 2020, scientific advances and world-popular cultural production begin to emerge from the Arab super state on a regular basis and at an increasingly frequent pace...
Click to expand...

That's more of an Arab, and not an Islamic, golden age.
 

riggerrob

WI Islam developed several major academic centres? ... Damascus, Jerusalem, Cairo, Alexandria, Tripoli, Timbuctoo, etc.
For example, I have had the pleasure of interviewing several very-well educated Egyptians.
Ideally, every major islamic city wold host a university and they would trade scholars.

Though this does require more moderate sponsors versus the OTL Saudi wahabi fundamentalists currently funding reactionary madrasas in poor islamic countries.
 

Deleted member 109224

Save the Ottomans?

Win the war against Italy and the first Balkan War, avoid WWI, retain Qatar (not British until 1916), grab Caucasus lands and Crimea from Russia when they have a Civil War, maybe have Herzl and friends pay off the Empire's debt in exchange for an autonomy (not independence), invest in infrastructure and the military.

When they start finding oil, the Ottomans will have Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Iraq, Libya, and Azerbaijan. The Ottomans would have something like 60% more oil than the Saudis OTL. Flush with money, the Ottomans spend the money on themselves and building up other states in the Muslim world.
 

Madeleine Birchfield

Banned
Ottomans stay neutral in World War I and modernises gradually, branding itself as an Islamic empire instead of a Turkic empire to stave off Arab nationalism. Europe grinds itself to a white peace in said war leading to communist, nationalist, and fascist revolutions in the 1920s and then another European war with extreme use of biological and chemical warfare that utterly destroys Europe completely to the extent that they cannot recover, and simultaneously indigenous revolutions in the European empires that lead to independence. Meanwhile the United States stay isolationist and do not become the international force they become after World War II. In the end, economic, cultural, and scientific power become concentrated in the Islamic-identified Ottoman Empire ushering in the Second Islamic Golden Age, where by 2000 the Ottoman Empire are basically the United States of this alternate timeline.
 

Deleted member 109224

Nivek said:
for that they've to win WW1 and Russia/SU collapse harder OTL so they've cushion
Click to expand...

I'm not so sure.

If the Ottomans stay out of WWI, that'd probably be enough. While the rest of the world is distracted they can put down internal rebellions and whatnot. Towards the end of the war they could also tell the losing side "sorry but we no longer respect the debts we owe you."

The issue is that if the Ottomans stay out, the straits stay open for commercial shipping which is a boon for the Russians and thus might avoid the war entirely. Although if some other country were to join the CPs that might balance things out. Sweden might do the trick, since the Admiral Nikolai Ottovich von Essen almost unilaterally attacked Gotland in 1914. Troops that went to the Caucasus historically instead are thrown at Sweden - perhaps balancing things out. Maybe Sweden and Romania join the CPs.


My overall point being, if you find a way to keep the Ottomans neutral but keep the rest of the situation relatively similar to OTL, then you could have a good thing going for the Turks. Saudi oil



Also, if we go with my idea that Abdul Hamid II coopts the Zionist movement to his own ends, perhaps many German and Austrian Jewish intellectuals who fled to Britain and (especially) the United States OTL would end up in the Ottoman Empire TTL. Most German and Austrian Jews were cosmopolitan urbanites though, so I have a hunch that a great many wouldn't go to Palestine. Salonika (if they win the first Balkan War) and Constantinople would be big recipients.

I think there'd need to be demands made of the Zionists. The main Council of Ottoman Jews OTL (which was separate from the Zionist movement) agreed to have Ottoman Jews use Turkish as their primary language instead of Ladino and Arabic. OTL the use of Hebrew as an official language, while having much historical/cultural/symbolic weight, was also a compromise of convenience between the mostly Ashkenazim (Yiddish), Mizrahim (Arabic), and Sephardim (Ladino, but also Arabic). Turkish could also be a compromise language.

Maybe Jacob Schiff could help prop up the Ottomans. His hatred of Russian antisemitism caused him to fund half of Japan's war effort in 1904-1905. He also supported some Zionist initiatives and was a big financier of American railroads. He could perhaps support the Ottomans as both a way to support the Zionists and stick it to the Tsar.
 
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Deleted member 109224

Nivek said:
Doubt, the entete already have plans to dismember the ottoman empire pre and post war
Click to expand...

If the British and French are broke and the Russians are a communist state, I don't think they'd be able to act on those plans.
 
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