AHC: a Prussian identity

The prussians lose the 1866 war, lose many/all of the "western" posessions and are kicked out of the German Federation -

I'm assuming you mean the German Confederation, which itself ended in 1866 as a result of collapsing from the War.


50 years later the Prussians are Prussians and NOT Germans. Just the same as Austrians today think the are Austrians first and just speak German language.

The seperate Austrian identity came about as a very specific situation, that is the leaders did'nt want to be lumped in with the rest of Germany in being punished and so they made-up an identity after the war to convince the Allies they were'nt to blame and it evolved over time as a result of Austrias position in the Cold War.

Prussia losing the Austro-Prussian war is not going to lead to the same thing.
 
I'm assuming you mean the German Confederation, which itself ended in 1866 as a result of collapsing from the War.




The seperate Austrian identity came about as a very specific situation, that is the leaders did'nt want to be lumped in with the rest of Germany in being punished and so they made-up an identity after the war to convince the Allies they were'nt to blame and it evolved over time as a result of Austrias position in the Cold War.

Prussia losing the Austro-Prussian war is not going to lead to the same thing.

Well, german austrians and germans germans so to speak had cultural differences since agood time, like religions - it's not quite new.
 
Well, german austrians and germans germans so to speak had cultural differences since agood time, like religions - it's not quite new.

All of the German lands do though; North Germany is Protestant while South Germany is Catholics, plus their have historically been lots of dialects of German as well; ultimately the only difference between the rest of the German lands and Austria is that Austria was successful in creating a seperate identity, under the right circumstances other parts of Germany could have done so just as easily.
 
All of the German lands do though; North Germany is Protestant while South Germany is Catholics, plus their have historically been lots of dialects of German as well; ultimately the only difference between the rest of the German lands and Austria is that Austria was successful in creating a seperate identity, under the right circumstances other parts of Germany could have done so just as easily.

You could also argue that all the pre-World War German communities worldwide; the Transylvanian Saxons, the Baltic Germans, the Volga Germans, who spoke German, but rarely considered themselves a part of a German state, also qualified.

Well, the Transylvanian Saxons may have before 1919, but the latter two generally did not AFAIK.
 
ONe thiong to keep in mind is that the creation of independent national identities for the territories of the German Confederation was a goal that many rulers put a great deal of effort into before 1871. School curricula were designed and history books written to celebrate the fact that we were Bavarians/Hanoverians/Prussians/Saxons etc. The German identity was seen as a secondary thing, culturally significant but not politically very important. If you can keep that trajectory going, somewhow sideline Germanness or keep it limited to the wollier fringes of the left, that could do it. After all, the political and cultural differences between the Germkan states were so great that many considered them insurmountable in practice.
 
Poland Lithuania conquers Prussia and annexes it, after 45 years they get in a war with Sweden and lose Prussia and Kurland to Sweden. Sweden merges Kurland and Prussia who become independent after Sweden loses a war with Russia. Until the Russian Tsar dies there is a little Russian influence in Prussia-Kurland. Eventually the country would be a melting pot of Lower German Prussians, Protestant Poles (which a different from the Catholic Poles in Poland), Latvians, Lithuanians, Baltic Germans (who have heritage from all over Germany, so different Prussians), Swedes and a little bit of Russian. Give them time and they will be like the OTL Dutch-German seperation by let's say today.
 

ingemann

Banned
You really don't need any complicated mahjor changes. Being Prussian was separate from being German, all the wayx until the end of the Prussian state. It was considered a reconcilable case of double identity - like being Texan and American - but like Texan, Prussian was a very clearly separate thing that a) many Altpreußen wore with pride and b) many newly acquired subjects intensely disliked. The old saying went that being Prussian was like an old wool jumper - scratchy, uncomfortable and unbecoming, but invaluable in bad weather. Being German, on the other hand, was all high-minded and spiritual, an identity of high culture and deep historic roots.

Prussian was more 'modern' in one key way than German - you could become Prussian. That was one of the state's proud traditions: All it took to become Prussian was the will to do so. Prussian identity embraced Poles, Wends, Huguenots, Dutch, Italians and even the odd African. German, on the other hand, was constructed strictly as a hereditary, genetic identity. To this day, most Germans feel that no matter what the passport may say, you cannot become German. Prussianness was used to bridge this gap in the Wilhelmine era, though only ever to an extent, never fully.

I disagree with the modern part, country-based identity based on blood, language and heritage is the new thing, something which follow with the idea of the national state. German as national identity may be a old thing, but as patriotic identity it's much newer and revolutionary thing than the Prussian, Hanovean etc identities.
 
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