AHC: A Polonophilic Imperial Germany

Building on earlier ideas, how about if Saxony - dynastically linked with the Grand Duchy of Warsaw - didn't stay loyal to Napoleon during 1813 as in OTL, but instead turned against him and negotiated with the Coalition to keep their gains (as Bavaria and others did)? If combined with a weaker Prussia for whatever reason, Saxony could plausibly play a major role in the unification of Germany; after that, the Wettins would rule as dual monarchs over Saxony (or the whole of Germany) and Warsaw/Poland. Indeed, supporting Polish nationalist ambitions could potentially be a very useful tool for Germany to try and undermine Russia and/or Austria, depending where the borders ended up at the Congress of Vienna.
 
I think in order for a German Empire to develop polonophilia then Poland needs to be weak enough to be nonthreatening as a neighbour but strong enough for its attributes to be admired.
The only way I can think of is to avoid union with Lithuania and match Christian denominations.
Or you can have strong Poland and strong Germany (but not centered on Prussia or Brandenburg for obvious reasons, best have Prussia annexed when Konigsberg Hohenzollerns died out) fighting together even stronger enemy, like reformed Ottomans allied with France.

Imo, Polonophilia would rather mean that Germans admire Poland and Polish culture, not just are toleratiing it.
 
I've never understood the whole trope of an imperial Germany that wishes to free their own poles, and, wants rule over the Balts. The baltics were only ever ~10 % German, the polish parts of the German empire were about the same, or more German, also, the land itself is more contiguous, the people more accustomed to German rule, and being part of Prussia since 1815, could be considered an integral part of the German state in a way the Baltic duchy could never be.
I guess memories of the Teutonic Order, further control of the Baltic Sea (thus denying Russia the same), and fewer non-Germans (due to having fewer people in general) would contribute to that trope. Also because people want a free Poland that doesn't get eaten by the Germans within 20 years of independence, I suppose.
 
Imo, Polonophilia would rather mean that Germans admire Poland and Polish culture, not just are toleratiing it.
This. It is not that big challenge to make Germany treating Poles as allies (but still challenge), but Germans admiring Poles and Polish culture???
 
Quite simple. Have 1848 succeed. The German revolutionaries were very pro-Polish, giving them further autonomy in German Poland, but then the revolution was totally and utterly crushed, destroying any hope of that.
 
It's difficult to make any country philic over a close neighbouring one.

One thing that really should be noted is that German liberals appreciated Polish culture as they liked the liberal values expressed towards the end of the Commonwealth as greatly admirable. There was an emerging view that the Partitions of Poland were a bad idea. Compare to how Chartists in Britain found the Society of United Irishmen highly admirable.
 
Success of NATIONALIST revolution in Germany would not mean anything good for Poles. German National Comittete proclaimed in Posen in 1848 was as anti-Polish.
 
Success of NATIONALIST revolution in Germany

Those nationalists were liberals who genuinely idealized the liberalism of the last days of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. They also thought that it was impossible to assimilate the Poles.

German National Comittete proclaimed in Posen in 1848 was as anti-Polish.

Was it? From what I’ve read, they actively attempted to compromise with local revolutionaries to establish further autonomy. It’s one of the reasons that the post-1848 Prussian backlash against the Poles was so great.
 

Thomas1195

Banned
We can have Russia occupy all of Prussian Poland after Napoleonic War. Maybe have Napoleon winning at Waterloo and crushing the Prussians and then losing to the next battle against the Russians. This would make Prussia's claim very weak.

Then, have the 1848 revolutions happen as IOTL with Polish Uprising delayed to 1848.
 
Just after German Republic is estabilished after successful revolution any Polonophilia would fade away due to fact that Poles of Posen would not want to be good citizens of Republic (in other words-they don't want to became Germans). New Germany would quickly came to conclusion that it is good that Warsaw is in Russian hands-at least Russia don't claim Posen and West Prussia, so is better neighbour that independent Poland would be.
 

Thomas1195

Banned
Just after German Republic is estabilished after successful revolution any Polonophilia would fade away due to fact that Poles of Posen would not want to be good citizens of Republic (in other words-they don't want to became Germans). New Germany would quickly came to conclusion that it is good that Warsaw is in Russian hands-at least Russia don't claim Posen and West Prussia, so is better neighbour that independent Poland would be.
The most plausible way is to have Russia becoming much more important and taking all of Prussian Poland after Napoleonic War. Now, a friendly Poland would suddenly become the best interest of Germany as a buffer state. Instead of join force with Russia and Austria to suppress Polish Uprising, the Germans now prop them up.
 

BigBlueBox

Banned
So in other words, the consensus in this thread is that a Polonophilic Imperial Germany is as plausible as a Kurdistan-philic Turkey.
 
So in other words, the consensus in this thread is that a Polonophilic Imperial Germany is as plausible as a Kurdistan-philic Turkey.
Not entirely, but especially so for any Prussian derived Imperial Germany.
Compare England and celtophilia - there's generic celtophilia about but nothing really specifically Welsh or Scottish. Then there's Ireland.
 
Top