AHC: A Personal Country

Maybe this belongs in pre-1900, but I think it's definitely doable in post-1900. The challenge is to create a country, that is to say a geopolitical entity that is recognized as a sovereign state by most of the rest of the world, and maybe has a seat at the UN/regional organizations, that is effectively the property of one person or a company. An example that sort of comes to mind is the White Rajahs, but I'd like whatever country is created to persist to the present day.

I was thinking perhaps some religious group could pick an island in the Caribbean or pacific and basically subsume the population and government, like what they tried to do on the county level with Rajneeshpuram. A company that effectively buys out the entire population of a country and takes over the state for its own purposes will also work. IOTL there's definitely companies that could do that, but to my knowledge none have ever done so.
 
A more hardcore version of Saudi Arabia perhaps? although OTL Saudi Arabia is kinda like that already?
 
There is the Principality of Sealand on a disused British anti-aircraft platform that was in international waters.
The British courts ruled that they didn't have jurisdiction over it in a firearms case in 1968, and the German government sent a diplomat to negotiate the release of a German citizen held on treason charges following an attempted armed coup in 1978.
Possibly if they refused to negotiate with the Germans until the German Government formally recognized them as a Sovereign State this would count, and the Germans acceded this would as a country.
 
There is the Principality of Sealand on a disused British anti-aircraft platform that was in international waters.
The British courts ruled that they didn't have jurisdiction over it in a firearms case in 1968, and the German government sent a diplomat to negotiate the release of a German citizen held on treason charges following an attempted armed coup in 1978.
Possibly if they refused to negotiate with the Germans until the German Government formally recognized them as a Sovereign State this would count, and the Germans acceded this would as a country.
The problem with Sealand is that it has no recognition. I'd prefer that this challenge result in a country that most other countries acknowledge as sovereign.
 
The problem with Sealand is that it has no recognition. I'd prefer that this challenge result in a country that most other countries acknowledge as sovereign.
I know it isn't in OTL that is why I suggested that in an ALT TL that in 1978 the Government of Sealand refuses to negotiate with the German Government for the release of Alexander Achenbach until the German Government formally recognizes Sealand as a Sovereign State. Alexander Achenbach was a German citizen who had a Sealand passport and who was held on treason charges following an attempted armed coup. Assuming the Germans agree to this then that is the first step towards recognition.
 
I know it isn't in OTL that is why I suggested that in an ALT TL that in 1978 the Government of Sealand refuses to negotiate with the German Government for the release of Alexander Achenbach until the German Government formally recognizes Sealand as a Sovereign State. Alexander Achenbach was a German citizen who had a Sealand passport and who was held on treason charges following an attempted armed coup. Assuming the Germans agree to this then that is the first step towards recognition.
Ah ok, right. But would the Germans actually do recognition given that it'd probably tank relations with the UK?
 
Ah ok, right. But would the Germans actually do recognition given that it'd probably tank relations with the UK?
The Germans went to the UK first, and were told it wasn't their jurisdiction citing the 1968 court case. So I don't think it would cause problems since the UK's position seems to have been it's not our territory.
From the German Governments point of view they would be giving something that has no value to them, official recognition doesn't cost anything and will help them solve a problem. If Sealand make a nuisance later on they can always withdraw recognition.

With German Government recognition it is less likely that James Murphy, an investigator for the Office of Official Solicitor acting on behalf of the Department of Trade and Industry (UK) would testify in the 1990 US court case that the alleged Principality of Sealand was neither a state nor an entity capable of registering ships.
Or alternatively Sealand could become involved in this case and convince the Court that it was a Sovereign State.
 
The Germans went to the UK first, and were told it wasn't their jurisdiction citing the 1968 court case. So I don't think it would cause problems since the UK's position seems to have been it's not our territory.
From the German Governments point of view they would be giving something that has no value to them, official recognition doesn't cost anything and will help them solve a problem. If Sealand make a nuisance later on they can always withdraw recognition.

With German Government recognition it is less likely that James Murphy, an investigator for the Office of Official Solicitor acting on behalf of the Department of Trade and Industry (UK) would testify in the 1990 US court case that the alleged Principality of Sealand was neither a state nor an entity capable of registering ships.
Or alternatively Sealand could become involved in this case and convince the Court that it was a Sovereign State.
IIRC an issue arose because the EEZ or something expanded and once again encompassed Sealand, when that happens the Germans could withdraw recognition. But if Sealand is further recognized as Soverign that's going to cut a decent chunk of EEZ away from the UK.
 
How broad is the definition of "effectively the property of one person or a company", because quite a lot of authoritarian states might fit the bill.

There are a number of countries where the line between personal resources of the ruler and the assets of the state itself can get quite blurry.

There are also countries with quite powerful rulers who rule with near absolute power even if they don't own the country totally.

I guess if you extended the definition of "company" enough to include the catholic church you could say that OTL Vatican fits the bill already.

Certainly no privately owned large country like the Belgian Congo might survive decolonization, but some small European country like Lichtenstein which is already surprisingly absolute might work if you put the POD at some point before Napoleon.

Another possibility would be that at some point during the earliest 20th century some small country might try to incorporate itself to be owned by its citizens and thus create and thus refuse franchise to immigrants who are brought in as workers.

Or maybe some place like Svalbard gets a different solution to the issue of who gets to own and exploit it. Instead of everyone being free to come and try to extract natural resources, several countries might compromise by creating a company that gets ownership of the whole deal and in which everyone involved has a stake.

Generally I think getting a new country accepted by everyone else, especially one with weird ownership, would be a lot harder than getting an old weird country grandfathered in.

A semi-independent crown colony of some monarch having a really weird ownership and rules might fly under the radar because it has always been that way a lot easier than trying to establish something similar from nothing. Just look at the city of London for weird government set-ups that would never fly if someone tried to create something like that today, but which gets a pass due to tradition.
 
North Korea works fairly well, but its diplomatic isolation makes it a little outside what I'm hoping for. Plus, while the Kim family is legally entrenched in the system of the country, each generation of the Kim family has had to ascend within the system as opposed to simply straight up inheriting it.

The vatican might be a good one, certainly the vatican bank uses the soverign status of the papacy to its advantage.

Do you think a country like Estonia, which already made a big shift towards digitalization and things like e-democracy, could potentially adopt a shareholder type model in terms of governance?

One thing I was sort of hoping someone would know more about is eccentric rich people who might want to purchase a colony off of a colonial power and set it up as their fiefdom, sort of like in the Bioshock series, but less fantastical. The Dutch have a fair number of islands which today are independent countries I believe, maybe something could be done with that.
 
I'm not sure the White Rajahs are a good example. From what I could tell, they governed just like normal indigenous monarchs (rajahs). Except well, they were white.
 
North Korea works fairly well, but its diplomatic isolation makes it a little outside what I'm hoping for. Plus, while the Kim family is legally entrenched in the system of the country, each generation of the Kim family has had to ascend within the system as opposed to simply straight up inheriting it.

The vatican might be a good one, certainly the vatican bank uses the soverign status of the papacy to its advantage.

Do you think a country like Estonia, which already made a big shift towards digitalization and things like e-democracy, could potentially adopt a shareholder type model in terms of governance?

One thing I was sort of hoping someone would know more about is eccentric rich people who might want to purchase a colony off of a colonial power and set it up as their fiefdom, sort of like in the Bioshock series, but less fantastical. The Dutch have a fair number of islands which today are independent countries I believe, maybe something could be done with that.

The Republic of Jose Cuervo succeeds in getting recognition?
 
IIRC an issue arose because the EEZ or something expanded and once again encompassed Sealand, when that happens the Germans could withdraw recognition. But if Sealand is further recognized as Soverign that's going to cut a decent chunk of EEZ away from the UK.
That is correct it happened in 1987, as I recall the day before the UK expanded it's EEZ Sealand expanded their EEZ. The normal way that overlapping EEZ claims are handled is for the mid point to be taken as the boundary. So ideally a situation where the UK recognizes Sealand as Sovereign should come about before 1987.
Another problem is that the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (in force since 1994) which states in Part V, Article 60, that: 'Artificial islands, installations and structures do not possess the status of islands. They have no territorial sea of their own, and their presence does not affect the delimitation of the territorial sea, the exclusive economic zone or the continental shelf'. So ideally Sealand needs to gain widespread recognition as a Sovereign State before 1994 to predate the UNCLOS or butterfly away or change Article 60.

I'm going to bash out a rough time line

1967 2 September Founded.
1968 Border dispute with the UK shots fired.
UK Court rules UK has no jurisdiction over the Principality of Sealand.
1975 The Principality of Sealand adopts Constitution.
The Principality of Sealand introduces national flag, a national anthem, a currency and passports.
1978 August Attempted Coup by self described Prime Minister of Sealand.
Federal Republic of Germany (West Germany) formally recognizes the Principality of Sealand as a Sovereign State and opens diplomatic relations.
Alexander Achenbach's passport is revoked, and he is handed over to West German custody.
1987 The Principality of Sealand expands it's EEZ to 12 nautical miles.
The UK expands it's EEZ to 12 nautical miles.
The Principality of Sealand purchases a secondhand armed patrol boat off West Germany
The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland formally recognizes the Principality of Sealand as a Sovereign State and opens diplomatic relations to resolve conflicting EEZ claims.
Negotiations between the Principality of Sealand, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland over EEZ's reach an agreement that the border between the two States EEZ's will be the point equal distance between the two. Also it is agreed that the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland will manage the Principality of Sealand's fisheries for an annual rental, and enforce it's laws in the EEZ of the Principality of Sealand on non citizens of the Principality of Sealand. The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland committed to not enter into any Treaties or other Agreements that threaten the Principality of Sealand's status as a Sovereign State.
1992 US Court finding (1990) that the Principality of Sealand was neither a state nor an entity capable of registering ships is overturned on appeal by the Principality of Sealand.
1994 The United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea comes into force which states in Part V, Article 60, that: 'Artificial islands, installations and structures do not possess the status of islands except the Principality of Sealand.
 
Top