AHC: A more stable, constitutional-monarchy, parliamentarian Brazillian Empire

The challenge is to find a way to keep Brazil a constitutional monarchy that is more stable than its neighbors.

Additional things:

1) Have Brazil have its OTL 21st century borders (so Brazil does gain Acre, but no glorious Brazilian Empire that stretches from the Amazon to the Andes, the Atlantic to the Pacific.

2) Try to have more Protestant immigration. While I'm definitely not saying that Brazil needs more Protestants to be more successful, I do believe that a more stable Brazil could have attracted more Protestant immigration than OTL, especially from places such as Scandinavia, Britain and the Low Countries. Anyway to make Brazil 15% Mainstream Protestant (so not any Pentecostal movement but instead traditional Lutheran, Calvinist and Anglican Protestantism).

3) Elaborate relations with its neighbors, various European powers and the U.S.

4) Elaborate Brazil's long-term economic condition in this ATL.
 
Its pretty simple - just have Dom Pedro's first son survive, giving him an stable heir. That makes any coup quite unlikely, if not butterflied altogether. And if it does happen, he may decide to fight and that's that, because the man commanded immense loyalty across the country. This will also give him a further stake in being Emperor.

I suspect he will abdicate in the 1880s or 1890s in the favour of his son.
 
Its pretty simple - just have Dom Pedro's first son survive, giving him an stable heir. That makes any coup quite unlikely, if not butterflied altogether. And if it does happen, he may decide to fight and that's that, because the man commanded immense loyalty across the country. This will also give him a further stake in being Emperor.

I suspect he will abdicate in the 1880s or 1890s in the favour of his son.

And what about the details? Could we see more British Brazillians than in OTL?
 
And what about the details?
Lemme try, then:


1) Have Brazil have its OTL 21st century borders (so Brazil does gain Acre, but no glorious Brazilian Empire that stretches from the Amazon to the Andes, the Atlantic to the Pacific.
Pretty easy, the 21st century borders are mostly the result of long diplomatic issues. After the Paraguayan War, Brazil has mostly modern borders.

2) Try to have more Protestant immigration. While I'm definitely not saying that Brazil needs more Protestants to be more successful, I do believe that a more stable Brazil could have attracted more Protestant immigration than OTL, especially from places such as Scandinavia, Britain and the Low Countries. Anyway to make Brazil 15% Mainstream Protestant (so not any Pentecostal movement but instead traditional Lutheran, Calvinist and Anglican Protestantism).
A weird requirement, and I say this as a Protestant.

Brazil already attracted a lot of protestants. In fact, the first real protestant communities started in immigrants from Germany, if I remember right.

I'm not sure anything else can attract even more protestants, aside from better economics, which are practically a given if the Empire continues. The thing is, the United States is far more attractive to Protestants - its richer, its more tolerant and is a protestant country. Back when, and heck, even today, Protestantism in Europe is kind of a "Northern European" thing, Mediterranean Europe is strongly catholic.

Also the climate is definitively not friendly to Northern European types. There's a reason the main european stock in the country is Mediterranean. They could go to Southern Brazil, sure, but that's frontierland.

3) Elaborate relations with its neighbors, various European powers and the U.S.
Brazil has pretty elaborate relations already.

Now, the thing is, until recently, we were never too much buddy-buddy with our neighbors. They were a bunch of strange people spanish-speaking and spent almost a century picking fights with us. A stronger, more prosperous Brazilian Empire might have a good effect on the continental economy, especially if it keeps liberal economic policies. If Brazil industrializes, it will seek these countries as potential markets, and these countries will try to block brazilian goods in order to industrialize themselves. I suspect some countries like Argentina and Chile will industrialize and block, while Uruguay and Paraguay, possibly Venezuela as well, might fall under Brazil's influence.

I rather doubt that we will see Brazil in any big alliances or the like. That's not how Brazilian Diplomacy ever worked, Brazil in the international scenario is "That Guy Everybody Likes".

The Empire will have dynastic ties with the house of Habsburg, which might mean Brazil is closer to the Austro-Hungarians. This might be relevant in the future.

I don't think the Empire will want to involve itself in any world war. These will also lead to a "Import Substitution" model, if only to prevent the flow of industrialized goods from stopping every time someone starts doing naval fighting in Europe.

4) Elaborate Brazil's long-term economic condition in this ATL.
Without the mess that is the Old Republic, I would say Brazil is AT LEAST 10-40 years richer than OTL. This might be enough of a difference to catapult Brazil into what we call developed status, or close.

And what about the details? Could we see more British Brazillians than in OTL?
Not probable. They got better places to go - the US, Canada, Australia, African colonies... being a British colonists at the time meant a lot of choice. Far easier for them to go places full of other white anglo protestants.
 
Brazil already attracted a lot of protestants. In fact, the first real protestant communities started in immigrants from Germany, if I remember right.

Never more than 5% even around the 60's iirc, and it really started to rise due to Evangelicalism and not due to immigration from Protestant countries.


Only reason why I wanted to examine this is because the U.S. and Canada attracted a lot of Catholic immigrants, and outside of Quebec and small parts of the U.S. both were Protestant majority, so I just wanted to examine the inverse of a nation in the Americas with a Catholic majority that has tons of Protestants by the turn of the century.


Brazil has pretty elaborate relations already.
By that I meant "elaborate" on this specific point, not how the relations would be elaborate (I was asking for detail, which you did provide).
 
Also the climate is definitively not friendly to Northern European types. There's a reason the main european stock in the country is Mediterranean. They could go to Southern Brazil, sure, but that's frontierland.

Tons of Sicilians came to the U.S., and the largest settlements of Sicilian-Americans were in the cold, cold northeast, from New Jersey to Rhode Island, so I don't think climate is that major of an obstacle. It is true that Scandinavian Americans tended to immigrate to the colder parts of the country, but that's more because of the homesteads in the Plains States and the mines for the Finns up in Northern Michigan.
 
Never more than 5% even around the 60's iirc, and it really started to rise due to Evangelicalism and not due to immigration from Protestant countries.
Well, that is true.

Maybe alternate world wars are the key. My nephew's maternal grandfather was a german who fled WWII Germany and went to Rio, then he went to Northern Brazil to make his own life here, away from his siblings. Maybe do something to the US so more Germans and other Protestants go to Brazil rather than the US?

Only reason why I wanted to examine this is because the U.S. and Canada attracted a lot of Catholic immigrants, and outside of Quebec and small parts of the U.S. both were Protestant majority, so I just wanted to examine the inverse of a nation in the Americas with a Catholic majority that has tons of Protestants by the turn of the century.
Oh, I understand.

I think it would be interesting.

I suspect massive amounts of Protestants would face discrimination here. I remember reading about the experience of the first protestant communities, and they were often harassed by local catholics. If the Protestants go from a insignificant minority to something actually sizable, then I suspect they will face serious problems. Especially if being protestant = foreign. I mean, I don't think they will get openly persecuted or anything like that, but there will be definitively be a certain anti-protestant streak.

There's kind of an old protestant stereotype here - Calm, hard-working, quiet, fundamentalist/fanatical/strict.

Oh yeah, talking about that - The 1824 Constitution guaranteed Freedom of Religion and prohibited persecution, but in practice it was more like Freedom of Private Practice. You had to pretty much swear fidelity to Catholicism in order to obtain civil service jobs or be elected. I suspect this will come to a head in the early 1900s. The state was catholic and Separation of Church and State only came with the Republic.

One important detail is that the Brazilian Empire and the Catholic Church had problems, AKA the Religious Question.

It would depend on wherever the next monarch's instance is, too. Isabel was a Ultramontane.

By that I meant "elaborate" on this specific point, not how the relations would be elaborate (I was asking for detail, which you did provide).
Lol, I knew but I felt doubt, so I did both.

Tons of Sicilians came to the U.S., and the largest settlements of Sicilian-Americans were in the cold, cold northeast, from New Jersey to Rhode Island, so I don't think climate is that major of an obstacle. It is true that Scandinavian Americans tended to immigrate to the colder parts of the country, but that's more because of the homesteads in the Plains States and the mines for the Finns up in Northern Michigan.
Pale white people and harsh tropical sun don't go together. Anglos, Germans and Scandinavians are paler than the average portuguese, never mind the average brazilian. Also, tropical diseases. People also prefer to live in climates similar to their own.

I also rather doubt brazilian development will shift north of Rio until after a while. Even assuming Brazilian Industrialization launches off (under say, Baron of Mauá), it will still be concentrated in the Southwest. So yeah, not much reason for potential immigrants to go north of Rio. Unless something happens - say, the Carajás Mines found far earlier than OTL.

That said, the Empire was pretty big on rail. I suspect we will never see the "Archipelago Economy" of the Pre-Vergas era, at least not as strong. Perhaps, rather than a Belém-Brasilia Highway, we will see a Belém-Brasilia Railroad.
 
make Pedro I more conciliatory/able so that Brazil gets off on a stable start. He was great for breaking the country off from Portugal and getting a decent constitutional monarchy started, but then promptly alienated everyone by trying to put himself above it. He then abdicated and ran off because he didn't have the stomach to work with a congress. This led to the disastrous regency period which nearly destroyed Brazil. Pedro II was proclaimed in his early teens and he spent his lifetime stabilizing/advancing the country. By the end, he pretty much gave up. Giving him a son helps. So does giving him a more qualified predecessor who could give Brazil a larger royal family tree.
 
climate is not an obstacle to immigration. It's a factor, but not the primary one. Economy is. Should Brazil stabilize and industrialize, there's more than enough space with climate agreeable enough not to discourage European 'white' immigration. It's a huge country, so even the sweet climate spot is bigger than any single European country.
 
Dona Leopoldina surviving and being regent to Pedro II, would help Brazilian stability and government a great deal.About the neighbours,keep feeding argentina infighting,avoid getting embroiled in the Paraguay war.
 
Can Brazil at least keep Cisplatina? An outpost in the mouth of the La Plata would be good. Basically to have a good Brazil you need to have a better minded Pedro I who stays in the country and accepts a constitution. Or a more bold one who crushes the congress forces and end slavery earlier, although his move against Miguel was a bold.
 
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Can Brazil at least keep Cisplatina? An outpost in the mouth of the La Plata would be good. Basically to have a good Brazil you need to have a better minded Pedro I who stays in the country and accepts a constitution. Or a more bold one who crushes the congress forces and end slavery earlier, although his move against Miguel was a bold.

Sure.
 
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