In order to be Roman Emperor he'll need some presence in Italy(Lombardy).
Perhaps make that direct imperial territory?
AHC: A more Latin based HRE rather than a Germanic HRE
- Thread starter Basileus_Komnenos
- Start date
Perhaps make that direct imperial territory?
Maybe Italy becomes the Core of the Empire with the Emperor establishing his court in Milan or Pavia. He could likely give Lotharingia to his direct heir perhaps as a kingdom to rule with perhaps Aachen as his seat. This would make the Empire more Roman in character with Italy being the Imperial seat. I could see the Emperor remaining King of each territory but granting his sons lower lever royal appendages much like how the Kings LF France did in otl under the Capetian dynasty. This increased the influence of the royal family in the provinces. If the holder of a title died, the title would revert back into the hands of the Crown.
I was just doing an approximation of the legal dejure territories is East Francia.
What if they were under the King like with Charles the Fat? If he has a legitimate male heir, his son is still the possessor of all three Kingdoms. This son could maybe raise his sons to be more supportive of each other to recreate Louis the Pious’ vision of a confraternal Imperium. Instead of royal titles, the Princes could be given appendages within each Kingdom with the heir being made co-Emperor and co-King. When the King died, the heir’s brother will become the next co-King/Emperor until a son is born to him. A couple of generations of this might establish some sort of primogeniture based succession. This worked out for the Capetians after all. The Emperor could even have a ceremony of investiture where he formally crowns his heir as Co-Emperor/Caesar summoning his main vassals to issue fealty to him as well.
What do you guys think?
Your and @Skallagrim 's suggestion IMHO basically cover the whole range of possible outcomes. For obvious reasons the most disputed area is Austrasia/Lotharingia. West Francia (Neustria (may or may not include a bit of Austrasia) with Aquitania) need Burgundy and Italy for their more Latin based HRE. Austrasia/Lotharingia could go either way, or even end up being divided between the two, like the OTL treaty of Meerssen. Of course Lotharingia in your suggested Latin HRE might end in a similar manner as Burgundy did in the OTL HRE, the parallel is that both are peripheral regions.
The 'federal' Empire was tried by Louis the Pious and Lothar and it failed, even before Louis the German and Charles the Bald were triumphant. In the long run they end up being independent to paraphrase @Socrates .
I quickly adjusted a map to include both proposals, with the disputed areas between the blue and red line (granted Istria is optional, though it was a relative recent addition to the Italian/Lombard kingdom (789)).
Last edited:
So keeping in mind the timing of all of of this, how do these changes affect the viking age?
Will it still be like OTL where the franks where too busy fighting each other to focus on dealing with plundering raiders? Would normandy still become a thing?
Will it still be like OTL where the franks where too busy fighting each other to focus on dealing with plundering raiders? Would normandy still become a thing?