You may have noticed in my post that I actually say that it shares the proto-Germanic root through Frankish.
AHC: a completly alien "English" language.
- Thread starter ArKhan
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Right, so it's derived from a Germanic root; that's good enough for Anglish. Granted it'd be preferable to use an Anglo-Saxon word instead, but if there's nothing else to be found it's hardly a cheat.
Actually, another possible contender is "sceatt", which has Proto-Germanic origins AND never came from another source. The only problem is, how does one modernize the spelling without seeming rude? My bet would be "shaite" in order to avoid word-alikeness with "s**t".
EDIT: Indeed so, I overlooked that. Apologies.
I dunno, I guess it depends on the standard you use. I tend to oppose all non-OE roots excepting pre-conquest Norse roots.
Also, reading through the Anglish moot wiki is very amusing. I'm rather against Theech or Theedish for German. Surely Dutch is plain modern version to refer to all the continental Germanics? So Dutchland. My favorite country name thus far is the "Banded Workermootly Kithish Commonwealths" even though it contains the word 'common'
Fair enough, that's why I singled out Icelandic as a good source of borrowings though; granted, Icelandic isn't "pre-conquest" but it's pretty much updated Norse, which has a direct link to English (the same way how French in the Jersey Islands is a link to OTL's English due to the Norman connection) and has a ton of neologisms ready to use.
I think "Theedish" was meant to denote a sense of unique "Saxonness" that the mainland languages wouldn't have retained. I agree however that "Dutch/Dutchland" is better. And instead of "Commonwealth", "Meanwealth" can be used (or better yet, "allimeanwealth", a cognate of German "Allgemein" plus "wealth".
That was used in Old-Engliish as well? I was only aware of Gothic scatts.
Is there really a -ea- vowel in OE? The that should be retained in spelling, no matter which of the pronunciation versions is applied.
"Theedish" (I suppose that should be the fictive off-spring of OE theodisc) was also used in the sense of "English" in the earliest recorded time. That could be the name of that language ...
Yup;
And good point on "Theedish" referring to the language, not the land or folks.
English is pretty much German with French words. The upper class men spoke French while the commoners spoke Proto-English, and stuck in a French word or two to sound more, I don't know, aristocratic? Anyways, it could have worked in reverse, with a rebellious upperclassman sticking in a German word or two into his or her French. Eventually it would have stuck, resulting in a very different English language
I was going to suggest scot (as in scotfree) but that's from Norse
Except that using kithish for socialist is like using friendish for the same.
Your kith is the group of people you know; sometimes this is restricted to just your friends.
Compare kith & kin with friends & family...
I'd use something like Fellow-ownership for socialist. I'm just reporting what the Anglish Moot uses on their wiki. So 'Banded Workermootly Fellow-ownershiply Folkdoms.' Very silly, considering that just about everyone borrows Soviet from the Russian.
"Socialist" derives from the Latin word meaning "associated as kindred by friendship", so kithish is actually a fairly good translation for it IMO.
I love the Anglish wiki.
"Socialist" derives from the Latin word meaning "associated as kindred by friendship", so kithish is actually a fairly good translation for it IMO.
I love the Anglish wiki.
Actually it's derived from French social (which is admittedly descended from that Latin) which means "of or pertaining to society/community" so kith is not an adequate translation
Now this Anglish is funny and all, but it has not much to do with the original question.
Namely, it is NOT like a language where some external influence was omitted somehow: After the period in question (e.g. no Norman conquest) the language would develop normally, which clearly involves accepting lean words, building calques, and pressing existing words into new meaning patterns as translation requires.
Anglish, by contrast, is just the (evolving) result of a nerdy game. I'm glad to say that I'm sufficiently nerdy myself to enjoy this, but again it has little to do with AH.
Namely, it is NOT like a language where some external influence was omitted somehow: After the period in question (e.g. no Norman conquest) the language would develop normally, which clearly involves accepting lean words, building calques, and pressing existing words into new meaning patterns as translation requires.
Anglish, by contrast, is just the (evolving) result of a nerdy game. I'm glad to say that I'm sufficiently nerdy myself to enjoy this, but again it has little to do with AH.
My response to the OP is the same, that my preferred alt-English comes from a Plantagenet victory in the 100 Years' War.
Our, si vou prefair, the victourie de thes Plantagenets en the Warre de thes Annees Centurie is the vie mayour por an Angliss alternative. Id begins as an pato elite of thes notibles de the court en Laundres.
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"Fair ynugh.
However, I forchoos an Anglish ywin over Normannish overswaying in ðe Kynghall of Lundenwick during ðe Middel Eretied of Briteney; at least forby about underworps suchly ðe Ricksleid (boð Þeedish and Highdeemly), how ðe fraemwork of Lendwisthood upsprang in yainhood upon ðe forgon Sibship betwixt ðe Kyng and his Earls in Saxon tieds, asf.
Þis would still forlet oðer Ladenish or sundry fremdy words ðat would inbrung-be to ystand, suchliek "Republick" instead of "Leedwealð" (which nowadays stands for ðe Folkyieldskait forheld upon ðe Unbehired until ðey edstart work again), "Judj" instead of "Deemgiver" (ðe latter of which stands for ðey who would acweeð wheðer a go was good or not in sundry gaempley), or "Rieffel" instead of "Yweir" (which is not yliek ðe Dutch "Gewehr", but raðer means eiðer a weapon or wardgraið allymainly, not one ahoenly) wiðout yblotting words of fulworðy nator ðat beforhand egsisted in forgon tieds, and still forletting the British folk to harken moerso unto ðeir roots. And still, moerso ever grosser bunches of words may-be intradoosed ðanons, ðusly contribooting evermoer to ðe growð of ðe Anglish wordbook.
"EDIT: Words from a Latin source are underlined. Also introduced "eth" letters for the lower case, and "thorn" for upper case.
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Snark aside, "English" is the descendent of Old and Middle English, with the whole "silent letters/inconsistent spelling" thing being largely the fault of the Great Vowel Shift and spotty standardization of the printing press.
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Counterstrike
Banned
I personally think that a "no Norman Conquest" approach would be the best here.
To contribute some phonological ideas though:
Maybe you could remove the process of Middle English Smoothing which, on the examples given on Wikipedia, changed things like [θɾeo] to [θɾø] and [feowoɾ] to [fø:woɾ] and [seovon] to [søvon], and replace it with something like the "droll" of some Southern American English dialects so you can get a [j] inserted in there. That way, at least by say, the 13th century, in the 'Middle English' stage, you might have: [θɾeɪjo], [feɪjoɾ], [seɪjovon].
Another interesting thing that could be done is playing with Old English [ɑ], which ended up as [ɔ] OTL, and eventually [o], but could easily have done something else. Icelandic and Faroese for example change [ɑ] to [ɑʊ], and in some dialects of Irish, specifically Munster Irish, this vowel changed to [əu] in some places. So you could end up with: [stɑʊn] and [ɑʊn] for 'stone' and 'one'.
You could also voice consonants that for the most part have remained voiceless in English but changed to voiced in its closest relatives, the Frisian language, like [f] and.
And I think it would be really cool to see English develop some kind of pitch accent, like in Swedish.
To contribute some phonological ideas though:
Maybe you could remove the process of Middle English Smoothing which, on the examples given on Wikipedia, changed things like [θɾeo] to [θɾø] and [feowoɾ] to [fø:woɾ] and [seovon] to [søvon], and replace it with something like the "droll" of some Southern American English dialects so you can get a [j] inserted in there. That way, at least by say, the 13th century, in the 'Middle English' stage, you might have: [θɾeɪjo], [feɪjoɾ], [seɪjovon].
Another interesting thing that could be done is playing with Old English [ɑ], which ended up as [ɔ] OTL, and eventually [o], but could easily have done something else. Icelandic and Faroese for example change [ɑ] to [ɑʊ], and in some dialects of Irish, specifically Munster Irish, this vowel changed to [əu] in some places. So you could end up with: [stɑʊn] and [ɑʊn] for 'stone' and 'one'.
You could also voice consonants that for the most part have remained voiceless in English but changed to voiced in its closest relatives, the Frisian language, like [f] and
And I think it would be really cool to see English develop some kind of pitch accent, like in Swedish.
It does seem that no Norman Conquest does have the most interesting alternatives, however, that is still slightly recognizable. What about a conquest from another place, like Spain, or Holland, or even Ireland?
I've been playing with the idea of a (more) active "linguistic romanticism" movement in the 19th century, which could-- among other things-- curb the IAL fanaticism of the time (or at least push it towards something more like Latin revivalism), and (given the right groups of activists) serious literary revivals of Gothic and Occitan.
Anyway, this movement could cause some stir in Britain. I could see it doing several things: an earlier formulation of the Middle English Creole Hypothesis (maybe leading to an identity crisis in England), (British) English spelling reform, a movement akin to the Anglish Moot (a revival of Old English words and inflection), or addition of more Romantic (Latin) forms into English.
It wud unliekli becom the leodthaw, but in suth it wud make for a seldcuthe English, albeit anknowable to us IOTL.
Anyway, this movement could cause some stir in Britain. I could see it doing several things: an earlier formulation of the Middle English Creole Hypothesis (maybe leading to an identity crisis in England), (British) English spelling reform, a movement akin to the Anglish Moot (a revival of Old English words and inflection), or addition of more Romantic (Latin) forms into English.
It wud unliekli becom the leodthaw, but in suth it wud make for a seldcuthe English, albeit anknowable to us IOTL.