AHC: A Communist Germany and a Fascist Russia
- Thread starter treefreak32
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AlexG
Banned
The 1905 revolution succeeds and Russia becomes Democratic with an inept government and plenty of Jews and other traditional scapegoats in the government and a failure to win WWI or contain communist strikes and street violence.
All of which are not only feasible but probable given a successful 1905 revolution.
Interesting scenario and one that I believe I've talked about before, but that was in my really cringeworthy old days where I didn't really think too hard about things despite being interested in them.
I don't think Germany is too hard and there are a number of ways in which I could see a Communist Germany happening, one example could be to just have the 1918-19 Revolution succeed. A less divided leftist movement means the Social Democratic Party of Germany sides with the revolutionaires rather than the government. As a result the Communist/Socialists in Germany are able to take power. Also, with no Soviet Union, the Nazis wouldn't have as much support because there wouldn't be as much of a case for them (although you could also argue that communism could actually be no stronger in this situation, since they don't have a larger communist country to fall back on).
The really tricky part is getting Russia to become fascist, since "fascism" as we know it wasn't really something that was too appealing to the Russians at the time, but maybe I'm being a bit pedantic and this is referring specifically to a Russian form of fascism, which could be different to, say, Germany and more like Italian fascism. How about the Whites win the Civil War and a Black Hundreds-esque movement emerges and becomes popular, wherein they focus a lot on revanchism (getting back the territories lost by the Russian Empire after WW1)? If that movement prevails among the Whites and win the civil war, you could probably get something like that. I think one issue with getting a Fascist Russia would be the wide variety of people of different backgrounds living there and making up a large population and thus a lot of opposition to this movement, but I guess their supporters have a lot of scapegoats to go for in that case (German, Jews, Japanese (not that there were many of them living in Russia at the time, but I could imagine anti-Japanese sentiment becoming popular there if they're still annoyed at what happened in 1905), Ukrainians, Kazakh). I think Mussolini would probably want to side with them if the Allies don't already.
Regarding how the events would unfold in, say, a battle between them, Russia would win. Russia would still have their numerical advantage over Germany but would lack the industrial infrastructure the Soviet Union had (whereas Germany was a highly industrialized nation post-WW1). As for the Germans, they would still have a lack of reliable oil supply, and assuming that Fascist Russia and Communist Germany are both opposed to the Allies but also opposed to each other, it's unlikely that the capitalist/Allied nations would be willing to supply oil to Germany in fear of them using that oil supply to fuel their war effort against them. It'll take a long time, maybe even a few years, and it'll be bloody, but the Russians would eventually push the Germans back and force them to surrender.
Maybe I'm wrong about a lot of this, though.
I don't think Germany is too hard and there are a number of ways in which I could see a Communist Germany happening, one example could be to just have the 1918-19 Revolution succeed. A less divided leftist movement means the Social Democratic Party of Germany sides with the revolutionaires rather than the government. As a result the Communist/Socialists in Germany are able to take power. Also, with no Soviet Union, the Nazis wouldn't have as much support because there wouldn't be as much of a case for them (although you could also argue that communism could actually be no stronger in this situation, since they don't have a larger communist country to fall back on).
The really tricky part is getting Russia to become fascist, since "fascism" as we know it wasn't really something that was too appealing to the Russians at the time, but maybe I'm being a bit pedantic and this is referring specifically to a Russian form of fascism, which could be different to, say, Germany and more like Italian fascism. How about the Whites win the Civil War and a Black Hundreds-esque movement emerges and becomes popular, wherein they focus a lot on revanchism (getting back the territories lost by the Russian Empire after WW1)? If that movement prevails among the Whites and win the civil war, you could probably get something like that. I think one issue with getting a Fascist Russia would be the wide variety of people of different backgrounds living there and making up a large population and thus a lot of opposition to this movement, but I guess their supporters have a lot of scapegoats to go for in that case (German, Jews, Japanese (not that there were many of them living in Russia at the time, but I could imagine anti-Japanese sentiment becoming popular there if they're still annoyed at what happened in 1905), Ukrainians, Kazakh). I think Mussolini would probably want to side with them if the Allies don't already.
Regarding how the events would unfold in, say, a battle between them, Russia would win. Russia would still have their numerical advantage over Germany but would lack the industrial infrastructure the Soviet Union had (whereas Germany was a highly industrialized nation post-WW1). As for the Germans, they would still have a lack of reliable oil supply, and assuming that Fascist Russia and Communist Germany are both opposed to the Allies but also opposed to each other, it's unlikely that the capitalist/Allied nations would be willing to supply oil to Germany in fear of them using that oil supply to fuel their war effort against them. It'll take a long time, maybe even a few years, and it'll be bloody, but the Russians would eventually push the Germans back and force them to surrender.
Maybe I'm wrong about a lot of this, though.
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