AHC: a Christian "Israel" in the Middle-East

trajen777

Banned
I see four opportunities for a Christian type of state. To do this you need a strong Christian population or a population with a decent percentage of Christians. So for this you have:

· Armenia (best post WW1 and if u can minimize the Genocide to give more population).

· Lebanon – as stated by everyone

· Egypt : IN 1927 you have a “declared” Christian population of 8.3% however the est are all over the board in today’s population from 5% - 10%.

o IN census of 1897 you have 13.2% “stated Christian population”

o See on Egypt below bullet points

· Georgia –

So I am going to take the Egypt situation:

1. 1897 census done – 13,2 % claim to be Christian (real number let’s say is 25% ( ok why I picked this number A. . lazy and 25% is round number (ha ha) B. I figure the 13.2% is hard Christians willing to be persecuted, so if in today we are at “official 6.7% but reports from the community say 23% then let’s assume a steady and accelerating decline (and leaving Egypt) of the Christian community from 23% to the 6 – 10 % of today.

2. Population of Egypt was 8 mm in 1900 (2 mm Christian). GB controls and the Armenian massacre get wider circulation in Europe.

3. At the end of WW1 and with the Americans deciding not to support an independent Armenia, the Brits do not want to see another massacre, so offer to transport a sizeable population transfer to other areas. Egypt becomes the prime destination.

4. At the end for WW1 GB determines they need a divided Egypt to better control the arear. They do a population transfer from various areas around the Middle East to bring in another 2 mm Christians from Assyria, Armenia, and Lebanon.

5. Egypt is split into two provinces. Northern Egypt with Alexandria down to Cairo being primarily Christians. From Cairo down is primarily Muslim.

6. During WW1 the Christians give strong support to the Brits.

7. When GB leaves Egypt in the 1950’s the Christians form their own country. With a Christian besieged mentality they complete the conquest of the rest of Egypt, and as allies with Israel win several wars.(similar to what Isr did). You end up with and integrated population with a Christian identity (Armenians have gone thru the Armenian Holocaust) vs a national identity.

8. Under a constant siege mentality you would end up with a primarily Christian population with a small rump Muslim Egypt or an expelled population (ala Palestinians).

9. You would have mostly Christians and at the same time a small “westernized “ Egyptian Muslim minority.
 
Anyways, maybe you get a smaller Lebanon or it gets settled in part with Christian Arabs when France leaves Algeria, though I assume their religion, tongue etc would be rather different than Phoenician-descended Maronites.

I wouldn't think the numbers of Christians moving from various places in the middle east to Lebanon would have to be massive, just enough to strengthen Christian demographics in the country and create a critical mass to work with. After all Israel has some 20% Muslim population and some significant differences in its Jewish population, which came from all over the world in the post war era. The main thing that would bind the population would be Christmas, Easter and other Christian things. If Lebanon could get and maintain maybe 2/3 Christian majority from the 50s then it could develop along the lines of the OP.

This could be the best way. In the 1921-22 census (which I got from Annales de Géographie Year 1924 Volume 33 Issue 181) for Syria and Lebanon, the French noted 330,382 Christians (including Maronites, Greek Catholics, Armenian Catholics, Greek Orthodox, etc) and 274,711 Muslims in Lebanon alone. In French Syria, there's 167,661 Christians of various denominations. Find a way to get Syrian Christians (and later other Middle Eastern / North African Christians) to migrate to Lebanon to strengthen the Christian demographics in the country, and you'd be good.
 

CaliGuy

Banned
The challenge is to have a Christian majority state in the Middle-East that is supported by Western powers and by and large is similar to Israel from a military and political standpoint (strong army, democracy). The outcome of the world wars should be OTL.

You can have the POD in the 19th century (such as migrations to certain areas), but the founding of the actual state should be post-1900.
You can try having a mass religious awakening in Europe during this time result in a large movement in favor of another Crusade. Then, during World War I, we see a Christian version of the Balfour Declaration instead of our TL's version of it.
 

Sulemain

Banned
WI the West erects barriers to a refugee influx whilst the Maronite regime is actively seeking Christians to buttress their state?

As with everywhere in the world, the wider religious identity of a group is nowhere as important as it's particular sectional identity.
 
The challenge is to have a Christian majority state in the Middle-East that is supported by Western powers and by and large is similar to Israel from a military and political standpoint (strong army, democracy). The outcome of the world wars should be OTL.

You can have the POD in the 19th century (such as migrations to certain areas), but the founding of the actual state should be post-1900.
Can we jsut stick with an independent Lebanon with an Orthodox wank?
 
I see four opportunities for a Christian type of state. To do this you need a strong Christian population or a population with a decent percentage of Christians. So for this you have:

· Armenia (best post WW1 and if u can minimize the Genocide to give more population).

· Lebanon – as stated by everyone

· Egypt : IN 1927 you have a “declared” Christian population of 8.3% however the est are all over the board in today’s population from 5% - 10%.

o IN census of 1897 you have 13.2% “stated Christian population”

o See on Egypt below bullet points

· Georgia –

So I am going to take the Egypt situation:

1. 1897 census done – 13,2 % claim to be Christian (real number let’s say is 25% ( ok why I picked this number A. . lazy and 25% is round number (ha ha) B. I figure the 13.2% is hard Christians willing to be persecuted, so if in today we are at “official 6.7% but reports from the community say 23% then let’s assume a steady and accelerating decline (and leaving Egypt) of the Christian community from 23% to the 6 – 10 % of today.

2. Population of Egypt was 8 mm in 1900 (2 mm Christian). GB controls and the Armenian massacre get wider circulation in Europe.

3. At the end of WW1 and with the Americans deciding not to support an independent Armenia, the Brits do not want to see another massacre, so offer to transport a sizeable population transfer to other areas. Egypt becomes the prime destination.

4. At the end for WW1 GB determines they need a divided Egypt to better control the arear. They do a population transfer from various areas around the Middle East to bring in another 2 mm Christians from Assyria, Armenia, and Lebanon.

5. Egypt is split into two provinces. Northern Egypt with Alexandria down to Cairo being primarily Christians. From Cairo down is primarily Muslim.

6. During WW1 the Christians give strong support to the Brits.

7. When GB leaves Egypt in the 1950’s the Christians form their own country. With a Christian besieged mentality they complete the conquest of the rest of Egypt, and as allies with Israel win several wars.(similar to what Isr did). You end up with and integrated population with a Christian identity (Armenians have gone thru the Armenian Holocaust) vs a national identity.

8. Under a constant siege mentality you would end up with a primarily Christian population with a small rump Muslim Egypt or an expelled population (ala Palestinians).

9. You would have mostly Christians and at the same time a small “westernized “ Egyptian Muslim minority.

The Iraqi Nestorians might have some trouble integrating, but this is workable.
 

Wallet

Banned
Easy, have the French create a smaller Lebanon.
I was about to say this. Just divide Lebanon into two regions, muslim and christan. The muslim part joins Syria while the coastal region becomes part of France and becomes independent later in the 60s.
 
I was about to say this. Just divide Lebanon into two regions, muslim and christan. The muslim part joins Syria while the coastal region becomes part of France and becomes independent later in the 60s.

And Beirut? Because the city represents about 20% of the population of the whole country, it is not going to be possible to make it one or the other.
 
And Beirut? Because the city represents about 20% of the population of the whole country, it is not going to be possible to make it one or the other.
I guess this will be their "Jerusalem".

I see four opportunities for a Christian type of state.(snip)
I really really like this, even if I think taking all of Egypt is kind of a stretch. But if the numbers add up, Christians might actually be a majority in Northern Egypt. Does this mean an Egyptian(Alexandrian?)-Israeli border on the Suez Canal? This could be a very very interesting Cold War era, that is for sure.
 
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trajen777

Banned
I guess this will be their "Jerusalem".


I really really like this, even if I think taking all of Egypt is kind of a stretch. But if the numbers add up, Christians might actually be a majority in Northern Egypt. Does this mean an Egyptian(Alexandrian?)-Israeli border on the Suez Canal? This could be a very very interesting Cold War era, that is for sure.

Yes i would see the border being Libya to the west and Israel to the east and to the south Oina (on the Nile). I had thought Cairo in the south but to be viable you need to go south. From this i think you would end up with a grouping of Christians who had been persecuted and killed having a very Israel attitude of "Never Again". The cold war would have seen the west support Israel and the new Egypt vs the Russian Arab world.
 
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