British Republic
Banned
Apart from the areas I have suggested, what other areas (outside OTL Russian Empire in 1914) could they include?
AHC: A Bigger Russian Empire
- Thread starter British Republic
- Start date
exactly.
In which case, Peter's fears would be founded - they would become an Asian power, a la China, but never strong enough to compete in Europe.
Ironically, that might then open up Russia to being seen as the Sick Man of Asia, and powers hungry to gobble bits up
Best Regards
Grey Wolf
Oh.
....
Well, I'd say Russia, unlike OTL Ottomans, have a possibly distinct advantage of not appearing overly contentious(at least at the beginning). Also, since it's so far north/east(unlike the Ottomans, which was right at Europe's doorstep), it may be possible that most European nations(maybe not for Sweden and Poland-Lithuania) would view it as a "benign empire".
Also, it isn't really as if IOTL Russia was supremely successful in westernisation; maybe this one fares same or better.
British Republic
Banned
Would the Russian Empire still annex part of the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth?
To be honest, Persian Azerbaijan and probably just requires a bit more action from the Russian tsars pre-1800s. Maybe they steal a bit more during the Napoleonic wars when Britain isn't looking.
East Turkestan - A harder line against Qing China, especially during the Ili Crisis. Greater support for Yakub Beg of Kokand's invasion of the region while China was busy with the Taiping Rebellion, which allows them to absorb Kokand + East Turkestan later.
Outer/Inner Mongolia - Russia was actually very successful in courting the Mongol tribes into its orbit, which was partly why Mongolia became independent when the Qing fell. An earlier and more aggressive policy could see Russia make gains in Outer Mongolia during the Taiping (maybe as part of Aigun), which would pave the way for absorption of Inner Mongolia in the early 20th C.
Manchuria - Russia wins the Russo-Japanese War, or (very unlikely) takes it during the Taiping Rebellion.
Constantinople - quite difficult. Russia will need to be stronger than most European powers in order to take that city.
I would like to stress that this probably won't end up as a Russia-wank. Manchuria itself (the three northeastern Chinese states today) contains 300 million people - that's 2x the population of modern Russia. The ratio wouldn't be too far off had the Russians annexed more than Ninguta historically, and you can bet that the focus of Chinese migration will be to Manchuria whenever China is in turmoil, as with what happened in Manchukuo. This is the demographic time bomb that will explode spectacularly in Russia's face.
PoDs to prevent that from happening include Cyrillification, tying the Chinese down to the land, and greater development in the East - but that all just serves to turn Russia even more towards the 'East' and become an 'Asian' power, as people have said. These also won't be enough to eliminate the racial differences that exist between the Chinese and the Russians, and so the alienation of the former won't ever go away.
East Turkestan - A harder line against Qing China, especially during the Ili Crisis. Greater support for Yakub Beg of Kokand's invasion of the region while China was busy with the Taiping Rebellion, which allows them to absorb Kokand + East Turkestan later.
Outer/Inner Mongolia - Russia was actually very successful in courting the Mongol tribes into its orbit, which was partly why Mongolia became independent when the Qing fell. An earlier and more aggressive policy could see Russia make gains in Outer Mongolia during the Taiping (maybe as part of Aigun), which would pave the way for absorption of Inner Mongolia in the early 20th C.
Manchuria - Russia wins the Russo-Japanese War, or (very unlikely) takes it during the Taiping Rebellion.
Constantinople - quite difficult. Russia will need to be stronger than most European powers in order to take that city.
I would like to stress that this probably won't end up as a Russia-wank. Manchuria itself (the three northeastern Chinese states today) contains 300 million people - that's 2x the population of modern Russia. The ratio wouldn't be too far off had the Russians annexed more than Ninguta historically, and you can bet that the focus of Chinese migration will be to Manchuria whenever China is in turmoil, as with what happened in Manchukuo. This is the demographic time bomb that will explode spectacularly in Russia's face.
PoDs to prevent that from happening include Cyrillification, tying the Chinese down to the land, and greater development in the East - but that all just serves to turn Russia even more towards the 'East' and become an 'Asian' power, as people have said. These also won't be enough to eliminate the racial differences that exist between the Chinese and the Russians, and so the alienation of the former won't ever go away.
British Republic
Banned
Russia annexed Northern Azerbaijan under the Treaty of Gulistan in 1813, could they have included Azerbaijan insted?
Not bad, seems posibble...
Any idea when it is posibble...
The Qing rulers dicouraged Han Migration until they feared they would lose the region altogether, could Russia annex Manchuria before the relaxation of the rules relating to migration to Manchuria, so that the Russians keep hold of of the region, they could also control who can get it, maybe requiring them to speak Russian, that might mean we could see a Russian-Chinese indentity emerge in Manchuria?
Would than mean the Russians hold the region today or is that ASB?
British Republic
Banned
So we have established Russia (in addtion to OTL in 1914) coulf annex the following:
- Persian Azerbaijan
- Ottoman Armenia
- East Turkistan
- Mongolia (Inner and Outer)
- Manchuria
- Annex more of the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth (maybe even all of it)
- Uzbek and Tajik Afghanistan
- More of China
- More of Persia
- Constantinople
- Ottoman and Persian Kurdistan
- Some of Sweden
- Constantinople
- Romainia and Bulgaria
- Serbia/Bosnia
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Historically Peter took a few provinces after the Great Northern War. Some adventurous Czar might want to exterminate Sweden as a regional power and conquer all oft it.
British Republic
Banned
Would that be posibble? I assume Norway would remain out of Russian hands...
LordKalvert
Banned
1600 Boris Gudonov accepts the personal union and takes over the Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth. Manages to secure throne for his dynasty and avoid the Time of Troubles
1806 Russian Fleet gets to the Dardenelles before the British, force them and compels the Sultan to turn over the forts
1848 After saving the Hapsburg monarchy, Nicholas I tells Franz Joseph that the only way the Hapsburgs can have Hungry back, is if the Austrians drive take Constantinople for him
1859 or 1866 Intervene in either the Franco Austrian War or the Seven Weeks War and establish a firm boundry on the Caparthians
1867 Don't sell Alaska
1870 When the Prussians take France, take Austria as compensation
1895 Decisively intervene in Sino Japanese War depriving Japan of her gains and taking Korea. Force disarmament on the Japanese as well
1900 Boxer Rebellion- pull back and build up the army so you can take advantage of 1910
1910 Chinese Revolution- intervene to save the Manchus and make China a dependency
1914 Win World War I and drive all the way to the Elbe. This will make you secure for eternity
Just a few thoughts. I'm sure there are plenty of other opportunities to make Russia even more powerful
1806 Russian Fleet gets to the Dardenelles before the British, force them and compels the Sultan to turn over the forts
1848 After saving the Hapsburg monarchy, Nicholas I tells Franz Joseph that the only way the Hapsburgs can have Hungry back, is if the Austrians drive take Constantinople for him
1859 or 1866 Intervene in either the Franco Austrian War or the Seven Weeks War and establish a firm boundry on the Caparthians
1867 Don't sell Alaska
1870 When the Prussians take France, take Austria as compensation
1895 Decisively intervene in Sino Japanese War depriving Japan of her gains and taking Korea. Force disarmament on the Japanese as well
1900 Boxer Rebellion- pull back and build up the army so you can take advantage of 1910
1910 Chinese Revolution- intervene to save the Manchus and make China a dependency
1914 Win World War I and drive all the way to the Elbe. This will make you secure for eternity
Just a few thoughts. I'm sure there are plenty of other opportunities to make Russia even more powerful
British Republic
Banned
How big would this ATL Russian Empire be?
Would Russia end up aborbing the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth?
What about earlier Industrialisationand poltical/economic/social reforms?