AHC: “Who’s Next?” (Make this song true)

[whitecrow]

Create a TL based on this song where the list of nations (in chronological order) that develop indigenous atomic bombs is as follows:

1) U.S.A.
2) Russia/U.S.S.R
3) France
4) China
5) Indonesia
6) South Africa
7) Egypt
8) Israel
9) Luxemburg
10) Monaco
11) Alabama (which in TTL must become independent from the USA prior to developing its own A-bomb)

EDIT: Forgot France. Added it to the list now.

 

[Ash's Boomstick]

Create a TL based on this song where the list of nations (in chronological order) that develop indigenous atomic bombs is as follows:

1) U.S.A.
2) Russia/U.S.S.R
3) China
4) Indonesia
5) South Africa
6) Egypt
7) Israel
8) Luxemburg
9) Monaco
10) Alabama (which in TTL must become independent from the USA prior to developing its own A-bomb)

I guess he missed the UK as maybe he couldnt think of a rhyme.

 

[whitecrow]

I guess he missed the UK as maybe he couldnt think of a rhyme.

U.K. was not in the song but France was - and I forgot to include it in the list! I edited the list now though. France has to be 3rd to develop nuclear weapons in the TL, after Russia/U.S.S.R. but before China.

 

[whitecrow]

Really? No one wants to give this one a shot?

 

[Petros >Peter Fergus<]

Not all that tough, I think. Until you get to Luxemburg and Monaco, you have nations that could develop the industrial base for a nuclear arsenal, and are strategically located, or have their own enemies nearby.

Perhaps an alternate Hitler uses nerve gas on Britain, effectively knocking them out of contention. Operation Vegetarian means Germany won't be making any nukes any time soon. After that, we get the bombs in roughly historical order, until Indonesia. They could be the head of a non-aligned movement that wants it's own deterrent?

Maybe after Israel gets the bomb, there is a general nuclear war. Following the conflagration, successor states to Luxemburg, Monaco, and the United States (centred on Alabama), are the first to develop weapons again.

 

[whitecrow]

Yeah, the last three nations on the list is what makes this a challenge.

Is there any post-1900 POD that could result in Luxemburg and Monaco becoming powerful enough and militaristic enough to want their own A-bombs? Something other than nuclear war destroying everyone else and leaving them to pick up the pieces?

 

[Dathi THorfinnsson]

Yeah, the last three nations on the list is what makes this a challenge.

Is there any post-1900 POD that could result in Luxemburg and Monaco becoming powerful enough and militaristic enough to want their own A-bombs? Something other than nuclear war destroying everyone else and leaving them to pick up the pieces?

Otl, the soviets and the french, between them, sold conventional arms to anyone with cash, and the us and uk were almost as bad.

In a world where nuclear proliferation has gone wild, theyd likely sell nukes., too. The us could easily GIVE a token force of aa weapon or two to those two.

 

[Simreeve]

U.K. was not in the song but France was - and I forgot to include it in the list! I edited the list now though. France has to be 3rd to develop nuclear weapons in the TL, after Russia/U.S.S.R. but before China.

Ah, yes _

"Then France got the bomb, but don't you grieve,
For they're on our side... I believe..."

 

[whitecrow]

You know, this gives me an idea – is it possible for France to set up a Luxembourgian and/or Monacan Nuclear Program to exploit a loophole in an international treaty?

Let’s say that there is an international treaty prohibiting certain types of nuclear weapons or delivery systems and France is one of the signatories. But after France signs the treaty, Luxembourg &/or Monaco (France’s puppets in this TL) begin building the prohibited weapons with French assistance, allowing France to say “What? We’re not breaking the treaty – Luxembourg & Monaco are sovereign nations and it’s not our fault if they didn’t sign a treaty and are developing weapons to protect Fra-, er, I mean protect themselves in case of war.”

Would something like that be plausible? Would it even be possible?

 

[Plumber]

You know, this gives me an idea – is it possible for France to set up a Luxembourgian and/or Monacan Nuclear Program to exploit a loophole in an international treaty?

Let’s say that there is an international treaty prohibiting certain types of nuclear weapons or delivery systems and France is one of the signatories. But after France signs the treaty, Luxembourg &/or Monaco (France’s puppets in this TL) begin building the prohibited weapons with French assistance, allowing France to say “What? We’re not breaking the treaty – Luxembourg & Monaco are sovereign nations and it’s not our fault if they didn’t sign a treaty and are developing weapons to protect Fra-, er, I mean protect themselves in case of war.”

Would something like that be plausible? Would it even be possible?

It would, yes. But I think it's more likely for France to just violate it outright. If TTL's France doesn't have a Security Council veto, I could see it though.

 

[Bill Garvin]

Create a TL based on this song where the list of nations (in chronological order) that develop indigenous atomic bombs is as follows:

1) U.S.A.
2) Russia/U.S.S.R
3) France
4) China
5) Indonesia
6) South Africa
7) Egypt
8) Israel
9) Luxemburg
10) Monaco
11) Alabama (which in TTL must become independent from the USA prior to developing its own A-bomb)

EDIT: Forgot France. Added it to the list now.

OK

So, the USA develops the bomb as per history and uses it on Japan. Soviet intelligence steals it as per history. The French, determined to restore themselves to great power status then gets the development art and builds its own. The Korean War breaks out and MacArthur threatens to use the bomb on the North Koreans/Chinese - Russia gives the weapons to China as a deterrent. By this time the Chinese-leaning government of Sukarno (onet) in Indonesia fears it will be attacked by India over the Bali issue so China passes some of its bombs plus the production art to Indonesia. The French sell their bomb design to South Africa which is feeling rather isolated and alone. Then comes Suez so the Russians give bombs to Egypt to deter an Anglo-French attack and the US gives some to Israel to restore the balance. NATO then decides to form a multilateral nuclear force (there's another song about that) and headquarters it in Luxembourg. (just like they did the E-3 Sentry fleet and a few other things). Monaco, fearing a casino heist buys a bomb from the French. Finally, the Alabama National Guard storms a SAC base, seizes the bombs there and declares independence.

QED

 

[Martinus Paduei]

So Israel's getting tense,
Wants one in self defense,
"The Lord's my shepherd" says the Psalm,
But just in case, we're gonna get The Bomb!


All hail Tom Lehrer, musical genius and national treasure. All hail.