AH Vignette: Next Year in Jerusalem

Exactly; Goerdeler's opposition to Nazi racial policy was really only a difference in opinion as to how 'the Jewish Question' ought to be solved. He was just as anti-Semitic as anyone from the DNVP would be, and he did favour establishing some sort of artificial Jewish homeland / forced immigration to Palestine, as @AvatarOfKhaine says. (He pushed for either South America or Canada as a place to settle Germany's Jews, although of course neither of those are particularly tenable. Interestingly enough, Theodor Herzl, for his part, praised Argentina as a potential homeland during his territorialist phase early in the century.) This kind of forced emigration would obviously prove catastrophic on a human scale.

I must however say somewhat, that I think even an expulsionist viewpoint from a DNVP Germany puts it on the same rough playing field as the USSR would have been in terms of casualties caused by policies followed, obviously how guilty Stalin deserves to be of the general famines is one thing but I think you'd likely see less Jews dying due to expulsion than Ukrainians in the Holodomor. (Assuming a DNVP consolidation and restoration of Wilhelm II(I) during the early 30s)

By this I mean that assuming the expulsions are done in a manner like we are seeing now, that the much reduced casualty figures will see a very different view of this different Germany,

I suppose what I mean to say is that moving from industrial genocide to forced expulsion is a massive change, that while going from unprecedented evil goes "only" to an all too familiar evil to the Jews that this a huge deal in both the reality and the potential historiography of this post-Weimar state compared to the Nazis.

It's hard to say this without sounding like I'm praising this awful attitude, but its hard to clearly say otherwise my view that even as Goerdeler still thought of a "Jewish Question" that he would be seen much more in a positive light compared to Hitler.

I will also say that I'd be really interested in a vignette on deported Jews from a DNVP Germany trying to get to Mandate Palestine and the debates in parliament about what to do with the tensions that led to the OTL Arab Revolt either set to explode or having already caused an Anti-Zionist and Anti-Jewish rising and seeing the potential tension of would the British do something so evil as sink migrant boats going to the Levant.
 

Bulldoggus

Banned
Exactly; Goerdeler's opposition to Nazi racial policy was really only a difference in opinion as to how 'the Jewish Question' ought to be solved. He was just as anti-Semitic as anyone from the DNVP would be, and he did favour establishing some sort of artificial Jewish homeland / forced immigration to Palestine, as @AvatarOfKhaine says. (He pushed for either South America or Canada as a place to settle Germany's Jews, although of course neither of those are particularly tenable. Interestingly enough, Theodor Herzl, for his part, praised Argentina as a potential homeland during his territorialist phase early in the century.) This kind of forced emigration would obviously prove catastrophic on a human scale.
Generally, the forced relocation of large numbers of people causes horrific casualties, and in this case, it would be far worse, as millions are being forcibly relocated to a totally undeveloped, malarial island with a climate entirely foreign to the people living there.
 

Md139115

Banned
I for one like the fact that David suddenly disappeared from the room just prior to the Rabbi discussing that the Messiah shall eventually come (in the line of David). That's the sort of subtle touch you almost never see. ;)
 
Excellent work. Looking forward to more
Thank you! There probably won't be more - this is meant to be a one-shot - but I might do something else with this idea / setting.
I for one like the fact that David suddenly disappeared from the room just prior to the Rabbi discussing that the Messiah shall eventually come (in the line of David). That's the sort of subtle touch you almost never see. ;)
I'll let you interpret that one, although that's actually a coincidence.
 
Dumping the Jews on Madagascar is only different from dumping them in the middle of the Sahara in that they won't die of thirst.
 
I am hoping it will be similar to Afrika Reich. Without mass murder, even segregation will be awful, but those who remain alive may turn madigaster like the so called bantustans into something bearable.
 
Interested to see where this goes, obviously some sort of defeat has been visited on the French who owned Madagascar at this time. The population of Madagascar in 1940 was ~3.7 million, if you took the population of all the Jews living in the area of Imperial Germany (1914 borders) plus Austria (assuming Anschluß happens) a very rough guesstimate is around one million. Most of the Jews in Poland lived in the Russian part of the area. So in a short period of time you have increased the population by 25-30% and those who arrive have landed with only the clothes on their back in a country that is third world 75 years later so not much in the way of resources to absorb these folks. Only a small percentage of the deported are farmers, most are urban dwellers, craftsmen, professionals, shopkeepers etc. A limited number speak French, essentially none speak the local language(s).

I expect the Germans who are now the colonial masters have some presence on the island, so the formation of some sort of Jewish-Malagasy condominium that actually develops over time won't happen. IMHO expect 50-80% die off within 24 months.
 
Interested to see where this goes, obviously some sort of defeat has been visited on the French who owned Madagascar at this time. The population of Madagascar in 1940 was ~3.7 million, if you took the population of all the Jews living in the area of Imperial Germany (1914 borders) plus Austria (assuming Anschluß happens) a very rough guesstimate is around one million. Most of the Jews in Poland lived in the Russian part of the area. So in a short period of time you have increased the population by 25-30% and those who arrive have landed with only the clothes on their back in a country that is third world 75 years later so not much in the way of resources to absorb these folks. Only a small percentage of the deported are farmers, most are urban dwellers, craftsmen, professionals, shopkeepers etc. A limited number speak French, essentially none speak the local language(s).

I expect the Germans who are now the colonial masters have some presence on the island, so the formation of some sort of Jewish-Malagasy condominium that actually develops over time won't happen. IMHO expect 50-80% die off within 24 months.
And, even if they survive, it may end up like Malaysia in which the colonial-era immigrant class and their descendants end up being discriminated against as a matter of law.
 
This was so viscerally sad, I felt myself wanting to hold that poor girls hand.

I think if there was enough investment from, say, American Jewry, perhaps Madagascar could have been made habitable.

But even worse off then the Jews would be the Africans themselves, who would die by tens of thousands as Jewish settlers took their land.
 
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